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'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

theguardian.com

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Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#61

Post by NAFV_P »

yetanotherphd wrote: post #9
byuu wrote: post #7

Yep, exactly. You go to the adults, and they don't help you at all. So you stand up for yourself, and now you're the one in trouble. I can't possibly think of a more backwards model for encouraging bullying. Even with the punishments, I've always been prouder and happier when I stood up for myself. So do that anyway. It doesn't stop the bullying, but it does reduce it somewhat and you gain more respect for yourself.…

Unfortunately bullying by its nature is not a very popular political issue. Conservatives (somewhat correctly) consider bullying to be part of how society maintains is social structure. Progressives only consider bullying through the lens of oppressed groups , not individuals who are targeted for their perceived/actual difference or weakness. They don't identify with individual rights and self-defense as these are se…

> Conservatives (somewhat correctly) consider bullying to be part of how society maintains is social structure.

Have you ever been bullied?

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#62

Post by yetanotherphd »

NAFV_P wrote: post #61
yetanotherphd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately bullying by its nature is not a very popular political issue. Conservatives (somewhat correctly) consider bullying to be part of how society maintains is social structure. Progressives only consider bullying through the lens of oppressed groups , not individuals who are targeted for their perceived/actual difference or weakness. They don't identify with individual rights and self-defense as these are se…

> Conservatives (somewhat correctly) consider bullying to be part of how society maintains is social structure. Have you ever been bullied?

please see my other replies - I'm not endorsing bullying, I'm explaining why many conservatives don't think it's a problem.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#63

Post by yetanotherphd »

Dewie wrote: post #21
yetanotherphd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant they are somewhat correct in their belief that bullying is a part of our social fabric. But I don't endorse bullying, rather I think that there is something wrong with our society. It is not an uncommon (again, I don't endorse this viewpoint) for people to say that bullying is a normal part of growing up, and that it helps strengthen people's character, etc. I don't think people who say this are being 100% ho…

> I meant they are somewhat correct in their belief that bullying is a part of our social fabric. But I don't endorse bullying, rather I think that there is something wrong with our society. Of course it's part of the social fabric of wherever it happens and goes unpunished. This seems like saying "this is a thing that happens", which feels like a truism. Like you're saying, it isn't something that should be encourag…

Well it's not surprising it seems like a truism to you, since a big part of conservatism is maintaining the status quo.

But to be more precise about the benefit that conservatives see in bullying: bullying can be thought of as a social pressure not to be (1) weak and (2) different. I know some people will think that I am blaming the victim with (1), but I'm not. I was bullied in school, and I was physically weak and tended not to stand up for myself. Many of my friends were the same. Anyway, many people see discouraging (1) and (2) to be good things. (1) because society needs people (at least) men to be strong and vigorous in order to prosper and fight external enemies, and (2) because if there is no pressure to conform, people might do anything they liked and completely ignore societal norms.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#64

Post by yarou »

skwirl wrote: post #58
mayanksinghal wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how society maintains is social structure I grew up in India. My schools had no bullying at all. And we still had a (much weaker) social structure, the popular ones, the slightly-dangerous ones (those I would avoid hanging out with) and the not-so-popular ones (like those who would spend time on a computer instead of meeting up for sports). Bullying is not universal. Neither is it necessary.

According to a Microsoft survey, India is the third worst country in the world for online bullying[1]. The same survey showed that 54% of Indian students report being bullied offline, and 50% report having bullied someone offline. I think you are quite mistaken in your assessment of your schools. Studies have shown bullying to be universal among not only humans, but all primates and many social mammals[2] (such as ra…

It may be universal, but as you yourself suggest, it is highly dependent on cultural constraints. To talk of bullying in India without understanding communal tensions is ignorant and takes away from the rest of your valid points.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#65

Post by jiggy2011 »

walshemj wrote: post #59
UK-AL wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not automatic, its a reduction or increase in compensation. You still need to prove the thing. And that takes time & money.

Nope if the employer screws up badly by not having a grievance/discipline procedure its automatically unfair. An employer can lose an IT for this reason even if the employee has done naughty stuff.

I think that might depend on whether or not you use ACAS to resolve the dispute, I don't believe there is an obligation to go through ACAS unless both parties agree.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#66

Post by NAFV_P »

yetanotherphd wrote: post #62
NAFV_P wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Conservatives (somewhat correctly) consider bullying to be part of how society maintains is social structure. Have you ever been bullied?

please see my other replies - I'm not endorsing bullying, I'm explaining why many conservatives don't think it's a problem.

> I meant they are somewhat correct in their belief that bullying is a part of our social fabric.

I agree with this statement of yours from another comment, but I don't agree with the previous quote that I posted. My reasoning is that an old "friend" of mine, Adam Mohungoo - black, 5'9", born 26/09/1980, attended Sir Thomas Rich's School, Gloucester 1992 - 1999, is a FULLY FLEDGED SOCIOPATH. He would threaten to "kick your fucking head in" for such things as turning up at his house 3 minutes later than expected.

People like him do not facilitate the maintenance of the social structure, but unfortunately they are part of the social fabric.

> ... I'm not endorsing bullying, I'm explaining why many conservatives don't think it's a problem.

The recent tv campaign "This is ABUSE" highlights a shift in attitudes regarding very similar issues.

I see you mentioned that you were bullied, apologies if I sounded harsh.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#67

Post by walshemj »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #65
walshemj wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope if the employer screws up badly by not having a grievance/discipline procedure its automatically unfair. An employer can lose an IT for this reason even if the employee has done naughty stuff.

I think that might depend on whether or not you use ACAS to resolve the dispute, I don't believe there is an obligation to go through ACAS unless both parties agree.

I think ACAS is more targeted to group industrial disputes not individual personnel cases

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#68

Post by mgkimsal »

I did not have it anywhere near as bad as the poster, but had some incidents which, even to me at 6/7 years old, immediately made me start to question authority and become cynical.

A few random anecdotes:

2nd grade - kids kept talking in class, so the teacher declared "no talking - the next person to talk has to go stand in the corner" (which, even then, had me wonder - does that mean that there's no punishment for everyone after the first person?) Everyone was silently working for ... 10 minutes? The kid behind me starts kicking my chair. Tapping. Then hard kicking, as in, my desk/chair combo was moving (and making a sound, supposedly the thing the teacher was after). After 10+ kicks I turned around and said "stop kicking my chair". BOOM - instant punishment - go stand in the corner at the front of the room, and everyone laughed (again... WTF? wasn't silence the goal? and the other 20+ kids are not punished for making noise?).

"No tolerance" attitudes are just crap.

3rd grade - I typically went home for lunch, but ended up staying for lunch in school, and my routine had been messed up. After lunch, one of the kids was late back to room because he'd been to the bathroom, and the teacher declared "no more using the bathroom for the rest of the day", and she meant for anyone. I asked to go, and was told no. So.. again - someone else makes a mistake - intentional or not - and the rest of us have to pay for it? I kept worrying, and then after a bit I wasn't worried. I then realized I'd wet myself in class. Bad. Ugh... Got to go home early that day I think. But... WTF. I wouldn't go so far as to call these teachers 'bullies', but... stupid? Trying to treat 7 year olds as rational adults? It doesn't work.

I was bullied later on when I moved schools - I was a year younger than everyone else, and physically much smaller than all my classmates, and... there were a number of times in middle school and a couple times in high school I was physically intimidated/threatened. Rarely did anything actually happen, but the fear was enough to really stay with me for years. Reporting to teachers did nothing beyond an initial couple minutes of feeling safe, which quickly evaporated when I left the room.

It just led me to distrust authority and be cynical from an early age.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#69

Post by tinco »

crankpot wrote: post #48
tinco wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't do that, you can't just assume your kids are going to be bullied. I wasn't bullied on primary school, and primary school was one of the safest and happiest periods of my life, I still have some friends from primary school even. There's a good chance your kid is one of the 80% of children that isn't picked on. Even better: your kid might be one of the bullies, then you get the chance to really set things right.…

I'm homeschooled and I'm not fragile. I know a lot of men and women who were homeschooled and they aren't fragile either. Being frequently bullied may be one way to learn about life, but it isn't the only way. In fact I don't think it's even the best way. > What's to prepare them for that when they're homeschooled? Life. The homeschoolers I know do tons of things that help them explore life. There are too many to lis…

I didn't say a homeschooled kid would be fragile. I just think that not being homeschooled might prepare them a bit better for highschool life. But perhaps I'm totally wrong. I'm just reacting to the idea that sending your kids to school is sending them to be bullied.

I definitely do not think being bullied is a good way to learn about life.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#70

Post by jiggy2011 »

walshemj wrote: post #67
jiggy2011 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that might depend on whether or not you use ACAS to resolve the dispute, I don't believe there is an obligation to go through ACAS unless both parties agree.

I think ACAS is more targeted to group industrial disputes not individual personnel cases

ACAS do arbitrate individual unfair dismissal cases. Often employment contracts from large companies will say "You agree to use ACAS for arbitration".

Large companies like this because it streamlines the process rather than dealing with different individual lawsuits, it also gives HR a number of policies to implement which can tick the boxes and give them a strong position in any dispute. If you have 1000+ employees eventually someone is going to claim unfair dismissal.

Smaller companies with 10 employees or less are more to just hope they don't get sued at all.

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