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Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

nytimes.com

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Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#141

Post by yummyfajitas »

67726e wrote: post #3
spicyj wrote: post #2

At Khan Academy, we're really excited to work with the College Board to provide awesome, free test prep to everyone. We're putting huge emphasis on really learning the material instead of practicing test-taking skills that won't be useful afterwards. Here's a little more about the partnership if you're interested: http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/05/khan-academy-gets-major-par...

"Instead of teaching to the test we're going to put huge emphasis on really learning the material instead of practicing test-taking skills that won't be useful afterwards." Now how do we get the schools to actually do that?

People in discussions like this often assume that it's easy to make test scores go up without teaching the material.

Here are specific tests from some large states (the first I found via google):

http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/Mathematics/20100505book1...

http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/EnglishLanguageArts/04261...

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sr/documents/cstrtqmath7.pdf

How do you make scores on these specific tests go up to any significant degree without making students learn the material? Please explain the techniques in detail.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#142

Post by 67726e »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #141
67726e wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Instead of teaching to the test we're going to put huge emphasis on really learning the material instead of practicing test-taking skills that won't be useful afterwards." Now how do we get the schools to actually do that?

People in discussions like this often assume that it's easy to make test scores go up without teaching the material. Here are specific tests from some large states (the first I found via google): http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/Mathematics/20100505book1... http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/EnglishLanguageArts/04261... http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sr/documents/cstrtqmath7.pdf How do you make scores on these specifi…

Well, all of the tests are multiple choice. Switching away from the format would certainly encourage a better understanding of material. Given that the format of the 4 choices is general:

1 correct answer, 1 or 2 close but not correct answer, and 1 or 2 obviously wrong answers.

Now that format makes thing significantly easier to get the correct answer than simply presenting the problem and asking the student to solve the problem. I'd imagine some of you are thinking "Well hell, they would still need to know the formula", but they also give you formula sheets with the tests. Since they give you a list of possible answers and a list of applicable formulas, you can pretty quickly plug in some numbers and determine the correct answer. Does it still require some base understanding? Yes. But I can tell you with absolute certainty that my grades would not have been as high had I not known how to game the testing system in such a manner.

I'm only a few years removed from high school, so I cannot imagine things have changed too much, especially for the better. For reference I am from South Carolina, albeit I went to one of the more performant/richer public school systems in the state.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#143

Post by yummyfajitas »

67726e wrote: post #142
yummyfajitas wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in discussions like this often assume that it's easy to make test scores go up without teaching the material. Here are specific tests from some large states (the first I found via google): http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/Mathematics/20100505book1... http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/EnglishLanguageArts/04261... http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sr/documents/cstrtqmath7.pdf How do you make scores on these specifi…

Well, all of the tests are multiple choice. Switching away from the format would certainly encourage a better understanding of material. Given that the format of the 4 choices is general: 1 correct answer, 1 or 2 close but not correct answer, and 1 or 2 obviously wrong answers. Now that format makes thing significantly easier to get the correct answer than simply presenting the problem and asking the student to solve…

Teaching students how to get into the ballpark of the right answer and reject obviously wrong ones increases their understanding. It's an important skill and there are adults out there who embarrass themselves by failing to do it (for example http://www.buzzfeed.com/charlesclymer/5-things-more-likely-t... ).

Same thing for taking a reference work (e.g. a formula sheet, a wikipedia page) and figuring out which piece of information you need and applying it.

Remember, I'm not asking if the tests could be better. I'm asking what you do to make test scores go up without making understanding go up.

I'd be at least moderately convinced if you could even show me two teaching techniques, A and B, where A is superior for test scores but significantly inferior for understanding.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#144

Post by JoeAltmaier »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #143
67726e wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, all of the tests are multiple choice. Switching away from the format would certainly encourage a better understanding of material. Given that the format of the 4 choices is general: 1 correct answer, 1 or 2 close but not correct answer, and 1 or 2 obviously wrong answers. Now that format makes thing significantly easier to get the correct answer than simply presenting the problem and asking the student to solve…

Teaching students how to get into the ballpark of the right answer and reject obviously wrong ones increases their understanding. It's an important skill and there are adults out there who embarrass themselves by failing to do it (for example http://www.buzzfeed.com/charlesclymer/5-things-more-likely-t... ). Same thing for taking a reference work (e.g. a formula sheet, a wikipedia page) and figuring out which piece o…

I used to play rock-paper-scissors with my child. Could win every time. You could see on his face his simple logic.

You can learn to take tests - I did that for the GRE, got a 99% but hadn't ever studied 2 of the area tests I took. There's a logic to test questions, you can learn it.

There was no understanding involved, I can assure you. Just a recognition of what is considered a 'fair' question, which lets you eliminate answers that are too convoluted.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#145

Post by yummyfajitas »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #144
yummyfajitas wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teaching students how to get into the ballpark of the right answer and reject obviously wrong ones increases their understanding. It's an important skill and there are adults out there who embarrass themselves by failing to do it (for example http://www.buzzfeed.com/charlesclymer/5-things-more-likely-t... ). Same thing for taking a reference work (e.g. a formula sheet, a wikipedia page) and figuring out which piece o…

I used to play rock-paper-scissors with my child. Could win every time. You could see on his face his simple logic. You can learn to take tests - I did that for the GRE, got a 99% but hadn't ever studied 2 of the area tests I took. There's a logic to test questions, you can learn it. There was no understanding involved, I can assure you. Just a recognition of what is considered a 'fair' question, which lets you elimi…

"I did it, it's totally possible, I'm not going to support this claim at all but I assure you it's true."

It would be far more convincing if you actually skimmed the NY Reagents test and presented a teaching strategy which you believe would raise scores but not increase understanding.

Note that if such a strategy does not exist for the NY test but does exist for every other test, then we have a solution to all the complaints about testing - use the NY test for everyone.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#146

Post by jaybaxter »

Workaphobia wrote: post #91
jaybaxter wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there is a penalty for wrong guesses, students who have a pretty good idea that they know the answer, but aren't certain, must waste time determining whether it is in their favor to answer the question. Evaluating whether it is worth it to take a guess is a test-taking skill, and the SAT is trying to shift away from test-taking skills.

What's hard about it? If you can eliminate even one answer it's in your favor to guess.

Test questions like the SAT are designed to have wrong answers that look like they are right at first glance, so people who think they have a better than average chance by guessing often don't because they were baited by one of the wrong answers without thinking it all the way through.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#147

Post by the_watcher »

wtallis wrote: post #106
the_watcher wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Checking your work and realizing you forgot a semi colon or that you made an addition mistake is a very different skill than being able to eliminate an answer since you know it is incorrect. Further, it's an even more distinct skill to know when you have eliminated enough answers for your expected correct answer value >= your expected wrong answer value. That's not saying that they are not valuable skills…

No, if you're actually checking your work properly, you're going in with the assumption that there are mistakes to be found, and you're looking for reasons why your answer might be wrong - the same as when you're trying to eliminate a candidate answer in a multiple choice test (especially if "none of the above" is one of the choices). The gaming the odds aspect of the SAT only comes into play when you've run out of t…

Checking my work with the assumption I made mistakes is distinct from knowing that 2 of the 5 answers are wrong, and therefore my expected value of a guess is positive vs. when i cannot eliminate any. Saying that checking your work and knowing some answers are wrong but not which one is right are the same thing is simply not true.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#148

Post by the_watcher »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #137
the_watcher wrote: post #45

My immediate reaction: My score is now forever unrelatable to all except those who took the exam between 2005 and 2014. Not that anyone has asked my SAT score since I got into undergrad, but now a sizable group of people who did substantially poorer than me will seem as though they did extremely well (a 1550, for example, means something very different depending on which exam you took, while my score of above 1600 wi…

I'm not really sure why SAT scores matter to anyone other than kids trying to get into their university of choice, other than some sort of bragging rights. I had some of the highest standardized test scores in the history of my high school, but I'm certainly not the most accomplished.

I haven't thought about mine since applying to college until this story came out. Just thought what ran through my head was interesting, not that it was a real problem for me.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#149

Post by the_watcher »

trillium wrote: post #75
the_watcher wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The writing section is the only one I think test prep would have helped with. Especially with essay structuring. I just wrote a response to a prompt the way I've always written.

For the writing section, you have to follow an exact structure and use the right amount of words. You can also make stuff up to support your arguments. It's basically "Write a generic 5 paragraph essay using memorized argument flow."

Yea, with no test prep, I just wrote an essay as I always had. It was my weakest section.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#150

Post by aet »

picomancer wrote: post #98
transientbug wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem for why this stuff isn't taught in high school as much is that (and I do say this with some hesitance, as an engineering student who has had a strong math education, imo) I feel most people would probably not benefit much from having that additional content added into the high school course. The other and more major issue I see is that universities seem to be (just from personal experience and hea…

> most people would probably not benefit much from having that additional content added into the high school course It would be great if we could switch from content to teaching actual mathematical reasoning. You can read a famous essay called "Lockhart's Lament" for more about this subject. But that's not something that's happening right now either in classrooms or on the standardized tests. My point is that you hav…

The suggested prep for the Math 2 subject test: More than three years of college-preparatory mathematics, including two years of algebra, one year of geometry, and elementary functions (precalculus) or trigonometry or both. I think the "put it on the subject test" is a powerful argument.
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