Live data from Hacker News

Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

nytimes.com

51–60 of 152 posts

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, maybe I'm just an outlier but I got a 1370 in 1997 without really trying, let alone actually spending money to prepare. I'm also a 100% product of public schools.

Yeah I meant more than it is very easy to go from the 400-500's range to the 600-700's range with SAT prep. Especially on the writing section -- they only test on 20ish grammar rules, many of which are subtle and wouldn't necessarily be noticed without prep.

The writing section is the only one I think test prep would have helped with. Especially with essay structuring. I just wrote a response to a prompt the way I've always written.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#52
post #48

Removing the penalty for wrong answers seems to be an interesting choice to me. I thought a strong part of the test was the emphasis on carefully considering the questions so that the answers given were deliberate. Without a penalty, guessing is just a chance for free points. Not really a measure of any skill aside from test taking (of which the SAT already suffers from enough). But I guess if all of your tests at a…

Penalties for wrong answers are the ultimate test of test-taking abilities (actually, to an extent, an ability to implement probabilities). Your strategy changes based on how many answers you can eliminate, rather than on if you know the correct answer.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hardly specific to the SAT, that's true in basically every single thing measured. Including health. Lower income people do worse. Or perhaps people who are "worse" have lower income.

Yes. And these are problems that need addressing. Especially when the people who are doing worse are not even the ones earning the low income, just those with the bad fortune of having low income parents.

It's not the College Board's problem to solve. Their goal with the SAT is to offer colleges a predictor of college success. Why should they try to incorporate a form of affirmative action into their test? Why not leave that up to the admissions offices that will have a more complete picture of the applicant's background?

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#54
post #43

Why is "ending the longstanding penalty for guessing wrong" a good thing?

When there is a penalty for wrong guesses, students who have a pretty good idea that they know the answer, but aren't certain, must waste time determining whether it is in their favor to answer the question.

Evaluating whether it is worth it to take a guess is a test-taking skill, and the SAT is trying to shift away from test-taking skills.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#55
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are these "clear socioeconomic preferences" of the SAT?

Here's a striking image from NBC: https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/441295567168081920

This image tells me that wealthy kids are better educated. Why is that striking?

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#56
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose to add to this list?

Basic algebra and geometry: Order of operations; simplifying expressions; solving quadratic equations by factoring; finding area and perimeter of shapes; the classic "garden problem" (maximize area of a rectangle given fixed sum of 3 sides); naming the Platonic solids; adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing complex numbers; logarithms; solving exponential equations. I think probability, in particular Bayes' T…

Those are what the Subject Tests and (for calculus) AP Tests are for.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#57
post #29

> For many students, Mr. Coleman said, the tests are mysterious and “filled with unproductive anxiety.” Nor, he acknowledged, do they inspire much respect from classroom teachers: only 20 percent, he said, see the college-admissions tests as a fair measure of the work their students have done in school. What is really interesting to me is that while the rhetoric against the SAT (and similar tests like the MCAT and LS…

Needless to say, all speculation:

It's pretty hard to be dumb as a post and score 1500+ (excluding the short-lived essay). It may not be the most predictive factor for college success overall, but as the top schools have become increasingly competitive, they can afford to use higher and higher scores as a baseline. If they miss some diamonds in the rough who test poorly, they still won't have any trouble filling a class. Test-taking wizards with little else to recommend them will get filtered out through other methods.

On the other hand, if you're a mid-tier school trying to choose between a pair of otherwise similar applicants with scores of 1000 and 1200, it might matter to you a great deal how predictive the SAT is vs. the ACT or some other metric. Meanwhile, no matter how confident you are in its predictive power, at least it's an objective metric. One that, for better or worse, also has a marketing impact, since average incoming class scores show up near the top of college survey data.

I think most of the controversy about the SAT and other standardized tests centers around the predictive power of results near the median. Especially since re-centering, the test doesn't try hard to distinguish the top 1% from the top .01%, but it's very important that it correctly distinguish the 60th percentile from the 40th.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#59

I think these changes are long overdue. To me, the CR portion of the SAT seemed incredibly biased against people from other cultures. Not only was there a language barrier, but also there was the problem of allusions. Many of the passages contained references to things that you wouldn't expect a typical immigrant to know (things like Greek mythology, the indulgences of the wealthy, cultural icons, etc). I think the w…

These tests are for admission to an American college / university. Basic knowledge of Western culture is immensely useful if you're going to be in such an environment, both for studies and for social purposes.

Yes, basic knowledge is useful even if you aren't going to college. But the problem is that the tests reference arcane parts of western culture that an immigrant wouldn't be reasonably expected to know. My parents are both immigrants and I was born in the US (I have lived here my entire life), and I still had a hard time understanding some of the allusions in the CR portion. They aren't references to popular culture; they are references to an insular culture.

Re: Major Changes in SAT Announced by College Board

#60

Sounds like they're dumbing down the SAT. Those soon-to-be-cut "obscure" vocabulary words are critical for mastering English.

They're being replaced by other words and one which actually seem useful, if the two examples they give there are representative.
Post reply on HN