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Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

dish.andrewsullivan.com

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Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#31

Post by mattp123 »

coldtea wrote: post #26
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Late in life and after his death Hoover became a controversial figure, as evidence of his secretive actions became known. His critics have accused him of exceeding the jurisdiction of the FBI.[1] He used the FBI to harass political dissenters and activists, to amass secret files on political leaders,[2] and to collect evidence using illegal methods.[3] Hoover consequently amassed a great deal of power and was in a po…

Some on Wikipedia are also on a payroll. Including in articles about commercial products and companies, but even more so in political articles.

About that - I'm making an FF addon[1] that will alert you to users that self-report being paid by a third party, as required by a recently proposed ToS amendment[2].

[1] https://github.com/patriotpie/wiki-sanitize [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Terms_of_use/Paid_contributi...

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#33

Post by Crito »

suprgeek wrote: post #19

So the CIA Illegally Spied on the Congress Staffers investigating illegal CIA Torture Methods? ------illegality recursion too deep----------- But seriously this is a critical test for Pres. Obama. These agencies shouldn't be allowed to pull this kind of Shit without suffering serious consequences. Time for the Executive to step-up, fire a bunch of high-rankers and NOT sweep this under the carpet as some sort of "Bad…

Even firing all of the high-rankers would leave all the mid/low level guys who were the ones who actually followed illegal orders. Those people need to go as well, the entire agency must be gutted.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#35

Post by gillier »

bradleyjg wrote: post #24
baddox wrote: post #2

Anyone want to make bets over whether anyone will ever be legally punished over this?

They figured out how to immunize themselves during the Bush administration. Get a compliant lawyer to write a memo saying whatever you want to do is legal. Then you are relying on advice of counsel which tends to defeat the mens rea necessary to convict of a crime. The lawyer is also not liable because it's not a crime to give bad legal advice. This technique is how everyone at the CIA got the hook for destroying vid…

> The lawyer is also not liable because it's not a crime to give bad legal advice.

There is no excuse for not disbarring such lawyers, though.

Also, when I was on trial, I was told that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#36

Post by sentientmachine »

How far does a government agency have to go in breaking law before the military is deployed to put boots on the ground to reel in the agency back under the rule of law?

I'd like to think that if agencies started hiring their own armies and created their own version of law enforcement zones from other countries, and started killing people who opposed them, that someone would actually do something to stop that... right?

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#37

Post by nl »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #30
coldtea wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some on Wikipedia are also on a payroll. Including in articles about commercial products and companies, but even more so in political articles.

Really? That's very interesting. Do you have a link or further info about that?

There's a Wikipedia page about it[1]. More broadly, this Google search[2] will find plenty more incidents.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Congressional_staff_edits_...

[2] https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Staffer+edited+Wikipedia

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#38

Post by chadillac »

coldtea wrote: post #25
suprgeek wrote: post #19

So the CIA Illegally Spied on the Congress Staffers investigating illegal CIA Torture Methods? ------illegality recursion too deep----------- But seriously this is a critical test for Pres. Obama. These agencies shouldn't be allowed to pull this kind of Shit without suffering serious consequences. Time for the Executive to step-up, fire a bunch of high-rankers and NOT sweep this under the carpet as some sort of "Bad…

> Otherwise all that Hope & Change sloganeering will be empty rhetoric. Will?

Will continue to be

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#39

Post by rhizome »

suprgeek wrote: post #19

So the CIA Illegally Spied on the Congress Staffers investigating illegal CIA Torture Methods? ------illegality recursion too deep----------- But seriously this is a critical test for Pres. Obama. These agencies shouldn't be allowed to pull this kind of Shit without suffering serious consequences. Time for the Executive to step-up, fire a bunch of high-rankers and NOT sweep this under the carpet as some sort of "Bad…

If the surveillance they did was under EO12333 or similar (basically, Presidential orders), it was not illegal. That's why the fix has to be something more fundamental.
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