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Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

wired.com

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Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#61

Post by asciilifeform »

zackattack wrote: post #53
asciilifeform wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they do something great... the response will be "Meh". I still think that there are too many externally motivated people going into science, rather than too few.

I fail to see how this is any kind of problem whatsoever, unless the externally motivated people impede the internally motivated people in such a way that negative progress is made.

> unless the externally motivated people impede the internally motivated people in such a way that negative progress is made

Is it not obvious to you that this must be the case? Every scientific field (and the set of professional researchers as a whole, I dare say) has a prevailing culture, like any other community. A scientific culture which rewards grantsmanship, bootlicking, and smoke-and-mirrors tricks is necessarily hostile to anyone who is genuinely devoted to advancing science.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#62

Post by prewett »

swombat wrote: post #31
euroclydon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I questioned whether it's a Western phenomenon. I'm not trying to bash the U.S. I like being a citizen. I was actually trying to make an analogy to diet, health and medicine, where Western lifestyles have traditionally been found to be inferior to Eastern ones, because we, on average, eat crappy food, get diseases, then spend a bunch of money trying to fix the symptoms of those diseases.

It's hardly a western problem. I've been to Hong Kong and Taiwan, and they have just as many plastic bags as we ("The West") do, if not more. And they're just as concerned about them as we are.

I just got back from HK, and while I was there I saw a bunch of advertisements warning that many stores will start charging HK$0.50 for plastic bags if you don't bring your own bag. Seems like a good move.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#63

Post by a-priori »

Evgeny wrote: post #60
tobych wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we could just keep canvas bags in our cars." Or on our bicycles, indeed. Or our trouser pockets as we walk down to the local corner-shop.

"Green" bags have become quite popular in Australia. I think they look pretty horrible [1] though, but even girls carry them around while shopping. And you do not need to keep it in your pocket, just hang it on your shoulder. [1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d8/GreenBag...

They're also starting to do this in Canada as well, at least in Ontario. They're also now charging for plastic bags even though they're just as poor quality as before.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#65

Post by blasdel »

asciilifeform wrote: post #61
zackattack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how this is any kind of problem whatsoever, unless the externally motivated people impede the internally motivated people in such a way that negative progress is made.

> unless the externally motivated people impede the internally motivated people in such a way that negative progress is made Is it not obvious to you that this must be the case? Every scientific field (and the set of professional researchers as a whole, I dare say) has a prevailing culture, like any other community. A scientific culture which rewards grantsmanship, bootlicking, and smoke-and-mirrors tricks is necessa…

I was going to congratulate you on the biting neologism, but a depressing search revealed 'grantsmanship' to be a whole field of study :(

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#66

Post by nopassrecover »

prewett wrote: post #62
swombat wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hardly a western problem. I've been to Hong Kong and Taiwan, and they have just as many plastic bags as we ("The West") do, if not more. And they're just as concerned about them as we are.

I just got back from HK, and while I was there I saw a bunch of advertisements warning that many stores will start charging HK$0.50 for plastic bags if you don't bring your own bag. Seems like a good move.

South Australia has banned most plastic bags now and we're Western. When I see someone calling something a Western problem I typically think they are the sort of person who decries Western culture but still indulges in its benefits. That or an angry third-world dictator.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#67

Post by phil »

biohacker42 wrote: post #43
alex_stoddard wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. To quote the more detailed original newspaper article linked from Wired: http://news.therecord.com/article/354044 " A researcher in Ireland has found Pseudomonas is capable of degrading polystyrene, but as far as Burd and his teacher Mark Menhennet know -- and they've looked -- Burd's research on polyethelene plastic bags is a first."

They must not have looked very hard: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=23...

It's worth noting that this paper refers to polyethylene glycol, which is not the stuff plastic bags are made from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_glycol

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#68

Post by zackattack »

asciilifeform wrote: post #61
zackattack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how this is any kind of problem whatsoever, unless the externally motivated people impede the internally motivated people in such a way that negative progress is made.

> unless the externally motivated people impede the internally motivated people in such a way that negative progress is made Is it not obvious to you that this must be the case? Every scientific field (and the set of professional researchers as a whole, I dare say) has a prevailing culture, like any other community. A scientific culture which rewards grantsmanship, bootlicking, and smoke-and-mirrors tricks is necessa…

I challenge you to suggest a better system.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#69

Post by asciilifeform »

zackattack wrote: post #68
asciilifeform wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless the externally motivated people impede the internally motivated people in such a way that negative progress is made Is it not obvious to you that this must be the case? Every scientific field (and the set of professional researchers as a whole, I dare say) has a prevailing culture, like any other community. A scientific culture which rewards grantsmanship, bootlicking, and smoke-and-mirrors tricks is necessa…

I challenge you to suggest a better system.

Bring back Bell Labs, Xerox PARC, and their ilk. No grantsmanship, just buildings full of smart people working on whatever they like. That was the system which yielded the foundations for just about every technology you enjoy today.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#70

Post by pageman »

Evgeny wrote: post #60
tobych wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we could just keep canvas bags in our cars." Or on our bicycles, indeed. Or our trouser pockets as we walk down to the local corner-shop.

"Green" bags have become quite popular in Australia. I think they look pretty horrible [1] though, but even girls carry them around while shopping. And you do not need to keep it in your pocket, just hang it on your shoulder. [1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d8/GreenBag...

http://www.jpgmag.com/stories/1151 (I AM NOT PLASTIC bags!)
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