Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months • Hacker News Board

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#51

Post by BrentRitterbeck » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 8:16 PM UTC

asciilifeform wrote: post #50

pohl wrote: post #42

Every time this story comes around I'm struck by one thing: it's no wonder that kids tend to dream more of becoming professional athletes than they do of careers in the sciences. If they do they do something great in the former, no one will deny their accomplishment. If they do something great in the latter, the response will be "Meh".

> If they do something great... the response will be "Meh". I still think that there are too many externally motivated people going into science, rather than too few.

By "externally motivated", do you mean money?

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#52

Post by asciilifeform » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 9:06 PM UTC

BrentRitterbeck wrote: post #51

asciilifeform wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they do something great... the response will be "Meh". I still think that there are too many externally motivated people going into science, rather than too few.

By "externally motivated", do you mean money?

Money, honors, influence - anything contingent on impressing an audience.

An externally motivated person is capable of doing good science, given the right incentives. However, the way science is funded in most of the world today provides incentives for showmanship, rather than results. This trend has already destroyed physics (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0465092756) and computer science (http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/whats-w...) as respectable, intellectually honest fields.

Internally motivated people, driven purely by a love of their field's conceptual beauty, are invulnerable to having their goal system perverted by such systemic rot.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#53

Post by zackattack » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 9:14 PM UTC

asciilifeform wrote: post #50

pohl wrote: post #42

Every time this story comes around I'm struck by one thing: it's no wonder that kids tend to dream more of becoming professional athletes than they do of careers in the sciences. If they do they do something great in the former, no one will deny their accomplishment. If they do something great in the latter, the response will be "Meh".

> If they do something great... the response will be "Meh". I still think that there are too many externally motivated people going into science, rather than too few.

I fail to see how this is any kind of problem whatsoever, unless the externally motivated people impede the internally motivated people in such a way that negative progress is made.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#54

Post by zackattack » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 9:17 PM UTC

asciilifeform wrote: post #52

BrentRitterbeck wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "externally motivated", do you mean money?

Money, honors, influence - anything contingent on impressing an audience. An externally motivated person is capable of doing good science, given the right incentives. However, the way science is funded in most of the world today provides incentives for showmanship, rather than results. This trend has already destroyed physics ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0465092756 ) and computer science ( http://unqualified-re…

Physics hasn't been destroyed. I love your passion but your claims are sensationalist. I looked at the reviews of the book, and apparently it's about how particle physicists are headed in the wrong direction. Oh no.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#55

Post by dan_the_welder » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 9:47 PM UTC

I keep reading this as "Teen Decomposes IN Plastic Bag........"

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#56

Post by socratees » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 10:16 PM UTC

dan_the_welder wrote: post #55

I keep reading this as "Teen Decomposes IN Plastic Bag........"

The first time i read the title I thought it was some kind of forensic investigation.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#57

Post by cschep » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 10:25 PM UTC

biohacker42 wrote: post #45

wtdominey wrote: post #25

This article is from 2008. Any updates?

Plastic is easy enough to recycle/burn/bury and that's what happens most of the time. A lot of plastic pollution is from micro particles that escape during the process of manufacture, shipping, etc. China banned plastic bags because: They were sick of them, alternatives are easily available and some times authoritarian governments can do the right a lot faster then democratic ones. The rest of the world continues as…

"...some times authoritarian governments can do the right (thing?) a lot faster then democratic ones..."

I really like this train of thought. It's so easy to get caught in Democracy = CORRECT. For me anyway.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#58

Post by s3graham » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 10:27 PM UTC

socratees wrote: post #56

dan_the_welder wrote: post #55

I keep reading this as "Teen Decomposes IN Plastic Bag........"

The first time i read the title I thought it was some kind of forensic investigation.

Especially since the url slug is just "teen-decomposes".

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#59

Post by asciilifeform » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 10:48 PM UTC

zackattack wrote: post #54

asciilifeform wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money, honors, influence - anything contingent on impressing an audience. An externally motivated person is capable of doing good science, given the right incentives. However, the way science is funded in most of the world today provides incentives for showmanship, rather than results. This trend has already destroyed physics ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0465092756 ) and computer science ( http://unqualified-re…

Physics hasn't been destroyed. I love your passion but your claims are sensationalist. I looked at the reviews of the book, and apparently it's about how particle physicists are headed in the wrong direction. Oh no.

> it's about how particle physicists are headed in the wrong direction. Oh no.

"Wrong," as the book's title suggests, is not a strong enough word.

The string theorists have proclaimed that we should no longer require a model of reality to make testable predictions. This should not be confused with an honest mistake, and the fact that a majority of the field's participants are in on the fraud is no excuse (when you lie for money, it is reasonable to call it fraud, whether or not the deed fits the narrow bounds of any legal definitions.) Physics has been Lysenkoized.

Re: Teen Decomposes Plastic Bag In 3 Months

#60

Post by Evgeny » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 10:48 PM UTC

tobych wrote: post #27

thras wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The above poster has a valid point. He thinks that rather than making millions of single-purpose plastic bags and then going through an expensive process to clean up after them, we should instead not produce the plastic bags in the first place. For example, we could just keep canvas bags in our cars. That the parent has been moderated down so much is troubling.

"we could just keep canvas bags in our cars." Or on our bicycles, indeed. Or our trouser pockets as we walk down to the local corner-shop.

"Green" bags have become quite popular in Australia. I think they look pretty horrible [1] though, but even girls carry them around while shopping. And you do not need to keep it in your pocket, just hang it on your shoulder.

[1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d8/GreenBag...