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Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

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Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#271

I dislike the fact that females get a lot more attention because of their gender. If you want true equality you've to start treating everybody as equals and giving extra space for some just doesn't cut it. I see this all the time in my country (I don't know if this is the case here) but females get a lot more attention in basically all areas of society and I don't think much good can come from that. Well, I guess I'm…

staticelf, most of us here want that "true equality" that you refer to. But the unassailable fact of the matter is that we don't have it today. Look around you: assuming you're in IT, unless you work in a truly remarkable place men considerably outnumber women. We (and I mean the egalitarian "we") have to do something about that. I'd welcome your suggestion. But "start treating everybody as equals" is a goal, and not…

Men outnumber women in IT because most IT jobs sucks, and women don't want jobs that suck. Also, women don't have to take jobs that suck, therefore they don't go into IT.

The perception of IT has been distorted by some glamorous startup success stories and their photo galleries of comfy office space with free cappuccino. The daily reality of most software engineers is much different.

Time will perhaps show the truth of those words - I'm sure you'll disagree for now.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#272

I dislike the fact that females get a lot more attention because of their gender. If you want true equality you've to start treating everybody as equals and giving extra space for some just doesn't cut it. I see this all the time in my country (I don't know if this is the case here) but females get a lot more attention in basically all areas of society and I don't think much good can come from that. Well, I guess I'm…

Women have always been more important than men, because they bring the babies into the world. That is why men become cannon fodder - they are expendable.

What irks me about modern feminism is the claim that women have it so bad in society, when really they have privileges everywhere. Including less pressure to make a good income, and therefore more freedom in choosing jobs (jobs that are more fun often pay less good). Some of those less attractive jobs include IT...

I mean I think it is OK if women have privileges - I've watched my wife give birth. That makes up for a lot of things. But to give privileges and then be accused is not appropriate.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#273
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"men considerably outnumber women. We (and I mean the egalitarian "we") have to do something about that." Why? What is that evidence of? You assume sexism presumably. Men and women are different and have predispositions to excel in different areas. You know what would be really weird? A 50/50 split. Why is that the definition of correct? Why are so few people rational about this?

Even assuming you are correct about this - CS is not one of these areas. If you go back a few decades, programming was a much more even leveled field. In the 80s, approximately 50% of all programmers were female. (For numbers see e.g. http://blog.fogcreek.com/girls-go-geek-again/ )

I don't think you can just compare programming in the 80ies to programming today. Also, would you therefore say society was more equal in the 80ies than today?

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#274
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually don't bother with links to things that are phrased in such a way as to suggest support of segregationist policies. I don't care about women in tech. I care about people in tech.

Problem is, Crake, we're doing something wrong . Three years I went to Conj, and the first year there were -zero- women attendees out of 300. Second year it was -three- attendees out of 300. Third year it was eight or nine. I don't know what Lynn and company managed to attract last year. The people attending Conj are bright, well-spoken, polite. I didn't meet a jerk in three years, a crowd I was proud to be seen with…

Women have more attractive career alternatives. That's why they don't choose CS. I love CS, but it involves sitting in front of a computer a lot. That isn't healthy. Doing something with more people interaction is way healthier - and those are the jobs women tend to choose.

My take has always been that women are simply too smart to enter IT.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#275

My wife applied and I was surprised by the unseriousness of the application process. If you've gone through the online YC application process, imagine you dumbed that down for a 10 year old who only had 10 minutes to complete it and only had to answer one question, along the lines of "Why is America the best country on Earth?"[0] Here's the rejection email my wife got for those that are curious: Thank you for applyin…

I suppose less is at stake when admitting someone to a conference compared to admitting someone to YC. Therefore it makes sense to have simpler questions.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#276

When is the blue eyed founders conference? The left handed? Its an interesting watch for sure but what the hell. Pandering to a fashionable discrimination. When we all get over this as a society we'll be shaking our heads at it.

Replace "female" with "European founders." Would it still make sense? Is it ok to hold a conference for a demographic with common challenges and opportunities -- rooted in the fact they're from Europe? You're sad.

I suppose it would make sense to educate founders from Europe about legal issues, cultural differences that make trip up in the US and stuff like that.

The female founders conference doesn't seem to be about "how to better get along with men", though.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#277
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if only 10% of women are interested in working in tech but 20% of men are interested? (Random numbers not based in reality). Does a 50/50 split make sense? My personal experience is that there are fewer Black and Hispanic high tech workers than pretty much any other demographic, including women, if you get out of the big cities. I wish the answers were clearer, but all I can say is that if women are actually dis…

What in the world does this have to do with the event or the parent comment? Do people really have no level of self-introspection to the fact that you're the one making the conversation about this? That your immediate response is to this instead of the actual content, and yet you feel compelled to share it with the world? Nobody owes you a conference without the word "female" in the name, or one not featuring female…

Wait, what? The parent was the one who emphasized "female" and associated it with "kvetching". I was more thinking out loud in the first bit, and then agreed with his point.

Unbunch your panties, Internet person. I suspect they will give you a heart attack.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#278
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if only 10% of women are interested in working in tech but 20% of men are interested? (Random numbers not based in reality). Does a 50/50 split make sense? My personal experience is that there are fewer Black and Hispanic high tech workers than pretty much any other demographic, including women, if you get out of the big cities. I wish the answers were clearer, but all I can say is that if women are actually dis…

> For those who hire, do you pay women developers less than male developers of the same skill level? Skill level perception is influenced by gender, even for experts. [1] [2] Unless hiring managers are blinding the process by which they determine skill and/or pay, then they could well be paying women less even if they think they aren't. [1] http://www.pnas.org/content/109/41/16474.full [2] http://www.nber.org/papers/…

So the research you linked was about a science department and symphony orchestras which can be comparable. I can totally see discrimination happening there. I'd say the major comparable characteristic is elitism and status there, which I do not see as relevant in tech hiring. Perhaps at Google and Microsoft, since a job there = status.

Otherwise in tech, it's just so foreign to me. I take the time to try and learn about each person and don't generally see their gender at all, unless I'm trying to date them. Perhaps it's because I have a daughter and a sister who are both into tech.

Or maybe I secretly think my daughter and sister are less competent than their male peers... In truth, my sister appears to me more competent than her bf who is in the same field and it's nothing to do with gender. My daughter always compares herself to those who are better so it's frustrating, to say the least. "YOU'RE GOOD!" "NO, NOT AS GOOD AS ". Argh.

I guess all this female discrimination just hasn't existed for my own personal interaction with others, not to say that women haven't experienced it. I suspect when they get into mothering age, they have to make a decision to further their career or their family which is probably where a lot of the "gap" comes from.

Interestingly, my daughter's school tries to indoctrinate certain lines of thought into them and hearing her opinion on it is always enjoyable to me. Generally, she is of the opinion that men and women are different, make different decisions based on their personal experience and as such, are responsible for their outcomes. I'm sure a lot of that comes from me, but I'm glad she is a critical thinker. She specifically says she doesn't understand why there is a "girls who code" and refuses to go there, even though I've encouraged her to go.

This summer, she will be joining a programming class with 17 year olds, and she is 13. To say I'm proud of her would be understating it. My opinion on this topic may change, depending on her experience there, since this would be the most likely equivalent to her future working life experience.

For what it's worth, I coach a kid's sports team and the only girl there constantly complains about the boys calling her names. Here's the thing: the boys call each other names and fart on their faces too. What should I be doing? I told her parents that I don't think I should baby her and over the period of a few weeks, she actually became more confident to the point where she was a star player in a recent game.

Before anyone chides me for being off-topic, the reason I say this is to explain why my opinions are the way they are.

So, can we hear from women who are actually IN TECH, who are provably competent (link to github?) and who can demonstrate that they experience discrimination? Because, so far, all I've heard is speculation from journalists and eavesdropping evangelists who can't take a joke. I remember being quite impressed with a security hacker who has been posted here before and I did not see any blog posts by her bemoaning discrimination.

I have a vested interest in getting at the truth, for reasons I hope are obvious. I want my daughter to be happy in tech and if she won't be, then I need to help her find something else she enjoys!

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#279
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if only 10% of women are interested in working in tech but 20% of men are interested? (Random numbers not based in reality). Does a 50/50 split make sense? My personal experience is that there are fewer Black and Hispanic high tech workers than pretty much any other demographic, including women, if you get out of the big cities. I wish the answers were clearer, but all I can say is that if women are actually dis…

It's not a conscious choice people make. It's a subjective perception issue, which is harder to fix. Example: In a room with a male and a female founder, most people will ask the male for technical help, while assuming the female is less competent technically. Interviews are highly subjective, so is wage determination.

I can actually see myself doing this, if I didn't know both people. But is that because I'm male or because I think males are more competent? I don't know.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#280
post #114
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any blatant inequality except for the sex based discrimination being pushed on the field by feminists, which won't be corrected without pushback from egalitarians.

If you believe the sexes are equally represented in this field, you should probably try to learn more about a topic like this before forming such strong feelings on it, because the numbers show that not to be remotely true. I honestly have trouble believing you really think this, but I'll assume you're sincere but misinformed, which is kind of a relief. The claim that there are as many women in tech as men is as poor…

They have equal opportunity. (Actually, no, women have greater opportunity than men do these days.)

That's not a guarantee of equal outcome, though.

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