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Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

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Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#261

Post by Crake »

onmydesk wrote: post #62
dandrews wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful with that. You saw what happened to Larry Summers, right? Seriously, I take your point about the differences between men and women. I saw the news tidbit a few weeks ago about the study on toddlers and the toys they prefer. I'm willing to treat those studies objectively. Yet in the case I cited, fewer than three percent of attendees at a technical conference were women. "Predispositions to excel" or not, that…

Without looking into it the percentage that suggests no prejudice is unknown, so we don't actually know if 3% is where it 'should' be for that to be true, or the much assumed 50%. It has no basis in fact is my point really. And I'm uncomfortable in applying sexism as a solution to perceived sexism. Im confused why everyone isn't uncomfortable with that.

As a person in the demographic they claim to be trying to help, I'm confused too. I'M definitely uncomfortable with it, but according to these guys I'm too stupid to understand anything about my life.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#262

Post by Crake »

staticelf wrote: post #102
dandrews wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

staticelf, most of us here want that "true equality" that you refer to. But the unassailable fact of the matter is that we don't have it today. Look around you: assuming you're in IT, unless you work in a truly remarkable place men considerably outnumber women. We (and I mean the egalitarian "we") have to do something about that. I'd welcome your suggestion. But "start treating everybody as equals" is a goal, and not…

Yes I realize that most of the people want that. But I believe that if we try and take the quick route it will over time only make the situation worse. Of course, you are correct in your statement that men outnumber women in the field of IT. But I disagree with the statement that we have to do anything special about that unless that special thing is the golden rule to treat others how you want be treated yourself. I…

As a minority, I've always felt that "affirmative action" discrimination policies do me no favors. I wish more people understood how harmful they are.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#263

Post by Crake »

staticelf wrote: post #29

I dislike the fact that females get a lot more attention because of their gender. If you want true equality you've to start treating everybody as equals and giving extra space for some just doesn't cut it. I see this all the time in my country (I don't know if this is the case here) but females get a lot more attention in basically all areas of society and I don't think much good can come from that. Well, I guess I'm…

I want to move to Europe someday (possibly), but while I love how liberal a lot of the place is and admire their strong social safety net, the tendency to shift discrimination around from one demographic to the next instead of trying to eliminate it completely is something I find quite alarming. :/

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#264

Post by cube_yellow »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #259
cube_yellow wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I don't do it enough myself, so I'm projecting my anger/disappointment. 2. In the past months I've come to notice that I respect built men so much more than average guys, and how many social ills could be solved if every guy just lifted heavy weights a few times a week.

Well, I appreciate your honesty. You should perhaps consider that you're projecting your own self-loathing onto other people. One's physical fitness has nothing to do with the quality of one's character, and the world would not magically become a better place if all us fat dudes got visited by the Muscle Fairy.

Dedication towards improving fitness is certainly a reflection of character.

I honestly can't think of anything in the world that wouldn't be better if every skinny/fat guy started losing fat and gaining muscle.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#265

Post by baddox »

mbesto wrote: post #205
baddox wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's hear your proposal for addressing the already segregationist technology industry. Stop supporting segregationist policies.

Isn't a conference for just Pythonistas considered segregation? Definition of segregation for your convenience: the action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart

Indeed, a broad definition of the word would include this. I meant to imply that I was talking about segregation of groups which are often considered in genuine social conflict with one another, like gender, ethnicity, sexuality, religion, rich/poor, etc. Sure, there are "holy wars" between groups like Pythonistas and Rubyists, but I think most people agree that this doesn't reflect genuine social struggle.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#266

Post by adrienne »

ameister14 wrote: post #253
prayag wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is practically an urban myth at this point. You are wrong. It's not clear-cut. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap for an introduction. Are you suggesting that women are not prejudiced again in work-place and in technology? > You can Google for refutations of it if you want (either 80 cents, or 77 cents) and you should be able to find a dozen decent ones. I did. Here's what I found: http://asq.sage…

Actually if you look at the US office of government accountability study, you'd see a completely different view. Considering that the two cited articles are from 1993 and 1999 respectively, it might be worth it to attach more weight to a wide ranging government study from 2009. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09279.pdf

Two things about this study: First, it only covers people in government jobs. Second, the title of the study is "Gender Pay Gap in the Federal Workforce Narrows..." meaning there IS STILL a gender pay gap. And if you read the study, about 7 cents worth of the gap was unexplained by any of the factors they analyzed.

So okay, women don't make $0.77 for every dollar men earn. If we discard all the stuff the GAO found that definitely isn't related, women make $0.93 for every dollar men earn. So, is that somehow okay because it's "only" 7 cents?

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#267

Post by jonalmeida »

ameister14 wrote: post #254
jonalmeida wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting point. I think it's discouraging young male entrepreneurs. Hacker School has special funding for women wanting to apply and while I consciously ignore this, sub-consciously, I feel that I have a less likely chance of getting in so why bother applying.

Why does encouraging others discourage you? If I praise someone else does it make you feel less worthy?

Again, I'm all for achieving the same goal of equality, but maybe not in the same way that some places go about it. Hacker School is just an example institution, and I'm not trying to bash them or question their judgement - they really do seem like an amazing group of people, which is why I'd love to go there.

That said, I don't see why any man who isn't able to fully fund his stay, shouldn't be able to apply for a HS grant. If its for encouragement, then it would seem discouraging to those that can't apply for it. I'm not in this boat, but I can think of a few people who should go to HS but just can't afford to.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#268

Post by jonalmeida »

david_shaw wrote: post #127
Crake wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any blatant inequality except for the sex based discrimination being pushed on the field by feminists, which won't be corrected without pushback from egalitarians.

> the sex based discrimination being pushed on the field by feminists I've tried to avoid this inane discussion, but realizing that you're probably misinformed rather than malicious, I thought I'd chime in. Feminism is egalitarianism. Feminism literally means that women should be equal to men. I'm not going to argue with you about so-called "segregationist" policies, because it seems like we'd come to a stand-still.…

Btw, I use sleepyti.me all the time. Great work!

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#269

Post by ameister14 »

adrienne wrote: post #266
ameister14 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually if you look at the US office of government accountability study, you'd see a completely different view. Considering that the two cited articles are from 1993 and 1999 respectively, it might be worth it to attach more weight to a wide ranging government study from 2009. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09279.pdf

Two things about this study: First, it only covers people in government jobs. Second, the title of the study is "Gender Pay Gap in the Federal Workforce Narrows..." meaning there IS STILL a gender pay gap. And if you read the study, about 7 cents worth of the gap was unexplained by any of the factors they analyzed. So okay, women don't make $0.77 for every dollar men earn. If we discard all the stuff the GAO found th…

Nope, I'm just drawing your attention to the fact that it's narrowed from (the previously) stated 77 cents, and that perhaps the issue needs to be examined from a new perspective in order to continue to achieve returns.

As the previous studies cited were a 1993 study and a 1999 study covering Sweden, I thought it might be important to add some modern statistics into the mix.

The interesting part to me is on pages 84-86. If you look, you'll see the pay gap resulting from characteristics such as experience, difference in education, and difference in occupation (the three most usually cited to explain the wage gap) have narrowed significantly.

This is important because it showcases a societal shift in workforce population, from a 'glass ceiling' problem to a far more difficult one that is harder to define and fix.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#270

Post by facepalm »

jblow wrote: post #211

Note the extreme lack of women commenting in this thread, as well as the lack of discussion of any of the substance of the livestream. This thread is 100% nerdy dudes feeling offended by this event, plus other dudes attempting to counter this. Is not this thread itself indicative of a giant problem?

Men are not entitled to have an opinion?
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