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Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

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101–110 of 138 posts

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that doesn't make sense. If it is considered wrong/unethical to film on private property in Idaho - why would they legislate for a specific industry? Shouldn't filming video on private property be illegal all across the board in Idaho if the problem is about basic rights?

Its clearly a knee-jerk reaction to unfortunate events. But consider: Farms cannot be reasonably secured. Can't prove 'breaking and entering' when all you have to do is park and walk, maybe cross a fence. So they would need some special rules to make them private space at all.

> Farms cannot be reasonably secured.

Correct, it is an inherently non-private location, and therefore not entitled to any "privacy".

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#102
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself a far left liberal and I certainly don't condone abusing farm animals. However, taking a paying job under falsified pretenses with a made up resume and then spending your working hours secretly filming internal operations for future public release with the sole goal of harming your employer, that is just sketchy. If you believe in the cause so much that you call it war - well understood. But protect…

How does this play with the current whistleblower laws? Presumably longstanding employees would be protected. Where do you draw the line?

It strikes me as an added thought crime. If I get a job in an ag business and after I get there am witness to moral, ethical and legal violations will I be subject to criminal prosecution because they claim I had prior intent? How do they prove that? That I am vegetarian? Seems like an easy way to persecute/prosecute the messenger.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#103
post #15

At least this doesn't brand people doing this as terrorists, like in some states.

Ahh, the old "let's compare to the worst to make it look OK".

i.e., You know, America's health-care is just FINE, compared to Ethiopia's.

This law is terrible, no matter what you compare it to.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#104
post #6

Of all things, you would think that the first amendment would protect such a thing, can any lawyer weight on that? > The measure passed Idaho’s Senate earlier in February to the applause of agricultural representatives who said it would help ensure farmers’ right to privacy. There is a certain irony in the US that everyone can get privacy, except private citizen.

This is similar to the tort of public disclosure of private facts. (Libel protects me against you lying about me, but this tort protects against you publicizing my strange hobbies or sexual practices or other private practices so long as, and this is huge, there's no public interest). I know Idaho was a late adopter to the tort, while many other states committed the tort to statute. They may just be coming around. Th…

This is similar to the tort of public disclosure of private facts.

Similar, perhaps, but torts entitle someone to sue for damages and this law creates a new crime for which people can be imprisoned. It also removes the opportunity to argue on a case-by-case basis whether the facts disclosed were, in fact a matter of public interest.

If covert films document violations of the law regarding animal cruelty or food safety, those are matters of public interest by default. This law differs from the tort of public disclosure of private facts in that it still applies when those facts are of legitimate public interest. I doubt it will hold up to a serious constitutional challenge for that reason.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is similar to the tort of public disclosure of private facts. (Libel protects me against you lying about me, but this tort protects against you publicizing my strange hobbies or sexual practices or other private practices so long as, and this is huge, there's no public interest). I know Idaho was a late adopter to the tort, while many other states committed the tort to statute. They may just be coming around. Th…

DISCLAIMER/DISCLOSURE: i am not a lawyer. i am a near radical animal rights couchtavist. Aren't there Federal statutes that lay out what animal abuse is? I know the Law views animals as property, but in regards to dogs,cats, etc. there are rules about how you treat them. Do bovine, equine, and poultry animals not fall under these protections? Obviously i could be completely off base...

The federal Animal Welfare Act specifically does not apply to farm animals, and many state statutes also make specific exceptions for agricultural operations.

Cf. http://awic.nal.usda.gov/farm-animals

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first amendment rights would be violated if I was arrested and jailed for a year for saying something in your house you didn't like.

Yes, they would. What's your point?

You claimed it was the same. It isn't because there's a year's jail and a $5k fine involved, thus making it a constitutional matter, not a private one.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#107

I think the issue isn't family farms, most small farmers take their job seriously. The issue is big conglomerate farms that don't want their industrial processes to be aired and criticized, much less have people discover practices that produce tainted and diseased products that might kill people. It's easier to control the fallout when things go bad when there are no pictures, such as in lawsuits.

My background, I am from Idaho, my father, brother, and brother-in-law are all dairymen, and I worked my dad's dairy for 15 years. I also know the guy who owns the dairy the film was taken on, and I know quite a few of the people performing the most ageegious acts were fired soon after it was published. But, as an issue, the film was just published, in the most sensational way they could, and NO effort was made to co…

If you're interested in fixing the image of dairy farmers in Idaho it's probably not a good idea to ban filming on farms. Doing so just makes people assume the worst is happening. If, as you seem to argue, the conditions are not all that terrible, then why not open all diary farms to filming?

I also don't understand why the publisher should have contacted the dairyman beforehand. What purpose would that serve if the video would eventually be published anyway?

People care about where their food comes from now a days, and you're right that the public is ignorant of dairy techniques. However, you can't complain about the public's ignorance of dairy farming while at the same time decrying a publisher for making a move about dairy techniques. Censorship is not an effective means of education. If the dairymen want the public to be better educated then they should open their farms up, or start making their own movies detailing how they raise cows.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#108
post #9

Why do we need legislation like this? TFA says "[jail and a fine] for people who secretly enter ... " Do they not already have trespassing laws?

It's not trespassing if you're an employee of the farm.

We need to wait for a proper first amendment challenge to this before assuming this law will hold up in court. There is a lot about this law that could be challenged on first amendment grounds.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#110
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal isn't to "harm the employer", the goal is to expose their behavior. If exposing your "internal operations" harms you, the problem isn't person doing the exposing, the problem are the "internal operations". I find it fascinating how everytime someone makes scandalous practices public, people come on the scene to condemn the people who go to the public. If there is no legal way to publicise abhorrent practices…

This: "Illegal looking" law could be expanded later on to require hardware shutters on a persons eyes. So when they step on a farm, a machine checks to make sure your eyes are completely covered. Then later on, we may also have to make sure that the person visiting a farm also cannot hear, or smell, or touch, or taste. When you set foot on my property, any data you collect is not admissible in court. This could be a…

> This could be a good thing. I want to make it illegal for people to collect any kind of data of what I do on my property. If you want to come see, then you'll have to talk to my secretary and pay a million dollars for an exclusive interview.

Become rich; purchase laws like this one from politicians. Your dream is reality!

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