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Student Loans Are A Drag On The Economy

business.time.com

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Re: Student Loans Are A Drag On The Economy

#161

Post by goggles99 »

There is really three simple reasons that we have this 'problem' today.

1. People who cannot afford it are choosing very expensive universities.

2. The government is giving money away like candy, there is a definite bubble here because this money will be defaulted on. I know a professor at an art school who says his students easily get $150k to go study art. Many won't even get a degree with that money. Getting a degree or being on a path to get a degree in x years is not a requirement of getting the money. He says that these students will graduate and be lucky to go on to make $25-30k a year. That is pretty rough. This also drives tuition way up because schools know they can just charge more and the thanks to the govt. students and money will still funnel in by the truckload.

3. Students with student loan money live like rock stars. These are teenagers here. They suddenly have a bunch of money. do you thing that they are carefully considering that every dollar they spend will have to be paid back with interest? Teenagers... I have seen this over and over again personally. Luxury apartments, nice cars, buying, spending... "A part time job? are you kidding? who has time for that, I've got to focus on my party life.. Errrr studies".

Re: Student Loans Are A Drag On The Economy

#162

Post by rapala »

gojomo wrote: post #156
rwallace wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with what you said about the toxic market and the poisonous blend of state and capitalism - I'm a moderate libertarian, but the evidence overwhelmingly indicates if you're not going to have genuine capitalism in a sector, you are actually better off with honest socialism like we have in Europe than with pretend capitalism which gives you the worst of both worlds. I must, however, take issue with your last sen…

You could also tax degrees: http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2012/09/degree_pollutio....

If we were to combine this and the gp's system, won't we get into a situation where it is best to burn your degrees and just claim you know phd's worth of stuff? And then sue if someone with a degree got the job.

Re: Student Loans Are A Drag On The Economy

#163

Post by rahimnathwani »

by the time he graduates in 2016, he’ll face $400,000 in student loans

Why choose to study in New York? I imagine one could train to be a dentist for ~30% of that cost (including living expenses) in Central Europe or in India. Perhaps you'd need to do an extra exam before being licensed to practice back home, but avoiding that doesn't seem worth a > $200k premium.

Re: Student Loans Are A Drag On The Economy

#164

Post by rahimnathwani »

On the plus side, more students than ever before are attending college, which is a certainly a good thing, as van der Klaauw points out, even if it is a contributing to factor to overall debt increasing. A degree is usually worth the cost of college, even if the price tag is increasingly tough to bear.

It's not clear to me that 'a degree is usually worth the cost' but even if it were the case that going to college were the optimal decision for each individual who chooses to go, this locally optimal decision doesn't mean that it's good that 'more students than ever before are attending college'.

A college credential could have a positive NPV for each person thinking of getting one, but still be negative for the group overall. For each individual it's rational to participate in the credentials arms race only because if they don't, but everyone else does, they will be at a disadvantage.

(I acknowledge that many people get more from a college degree than just credentials.)

Re: Student Loans Are A Drag On The Economy

#165

Post by CharlesPal »

nirnira wrote: post #81

Why are student loans so high, the market so ridden with defaults, and the price of education so high? I think (well, I'm a little more certain than that) the answer is basic economics. Here's my take: You (America) have a government that offers discount loans - i.e. loans with poor prospects/low interests rates - in the hope of driving a higher allocation of capital to education than would occur in a pure private le…

You sir are 100% correct.

tl;dr - The better solution is probably no public loans or grants whatsoever.

Re: Student Loans Are A Drag On The Economy

#166

Post by bluedino »

raverbashing wrote: post #66
bluedino wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to the local company who has a policy of not hiring engineers from the state school that's just a few minutes away.

So, they can't work at that company, and? Are they the only employers? Also, if you have to go to school X (outside of the state) and then come back, well, there are better choices, no? There are always places that won't hire you because of your school, that's usually a red flag.

It's a fortune 100 chemical corp and the biggest employer in town

Re: Student Loans Are A Drag On The Economy

#168

Post by falsestprophet »

tostitos1979 wrote: post #113
falsestprophet wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are literally not medical doctors.

Yes, they aren't MDs. But they are Doctors. Personally, I have more respect for the average dentist than for the average GP. They put in tons of physical effort in their work. Lawsuits (or the threat thereof) are constant. Their board exams cover a lot of the same material as MDs. My personal experience is that the average dentist brings more relief to humanity (ever had dental pain?) than the average GP.

There are "Doctors" of everything. Psychologists, nurse practitioners, audiologists, veterinarians, optometrists, pharmacists, chiropractors, and podiatrists hold professional medical doctorates. They aren't "Doctors." In the United States when people refer generally to "doctors" they mean physicians and surgeons with a Doctor of Medicine or Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree who are licensed to practice medicine.

When people say "Is there a doctor on the plane?" after someone has a hear attack they aren't looking for dentists or audiologists are they?

Re: Student Loans Are A Drag On The Economy

#169

Post by makomk »

refurb wrote: post #149
carbocation wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The other two thirds come from drug price overruns (US drug buyers pay twice as much as single-payer countries which have much more size = bargaining power) As an infuriating elaboration on your point, the United States has a huge single payer in Medicare that is by law prevented from effectively negotiating drug price.

Medicare isn't allowed to negotiate, but it automatically gets the average selling price, inclusive of all discounts. Disproportionate share hospitals get 23.1% discount. It's not like the US gov't isn't extracting it's share. Medicaid IS allow to negotiate and has federally mandated discounts. Medicaid covers more people in the US than ANY of the Canadian provinces who do negotiate. What does that tell you?

Last I heard, the pharmaceutical companies had come up with various ways of artificially manipulating the price they officially sold drugs for in order to take advantage of this, such as making direct offsetting payments to hospitals rather than discounting the prices.

Re: Student Loans Are A Drag On The Economy

#170

Post by Bahamut »

tostitos1979 wrote: post #114
Bahamut wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hope is not lost in this situation - you just have to work at it more. I'm a stellar mind who also went to public schools for undergrad and grad, but I focused on self-development and networking after. I went from $50k a year to likely over $120k (that is in negotiation) in the span of 1 1/2 years of hard effort &learning. I too racked up lots of debt from school, about $200k total. I am forced to focus on money beca…

You got into 200K debt with a CS degree? I assume you did a Masters from Stanford or some other elite place?

Math actually - it was a top 15 program
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