At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers • Hacker News Board

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#31

Post by wlesieutre » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 11:45 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #29

jjoonathan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this group [does not deny] that climate change is occurring But their press release says > Apple is wasting untold amounts of shareholder money to combat so-called climate change. which sounds like denial to me. Would you prefer to call them "Climate Change Skeptics," the term coined by radical conservatives to attempt to paint themselves as not crazy and anti-scientific? Everyone plays the "name yourself according…

"Climate change" used to be "global warming" until that term became so strongly associated with extremists that it instantly damaged the credibility of anyone that used it. "Climate Change Skeptics" communicates the same thing as "deniers". You are missing the point. Most people agree that climate change (aka global warming) is occurring. The argument is over whether we can cause it or stop it.

NCPPR's page on the subject does still call it "Global Warming" though. http://www.nationalcenter.org/Kyoto.html

Among their headlines:

  - Get a Clue, White House: The Planet Isn't Warming
  - Do 97% of All Climate Scientists Really Believe Mankind is Causing Catastrophic Global Warming?
  - Planet Hasn't Warmed Since 1997, Yet Senators Fret the News Media is Covering Actual Crises Instead of Climate Change

Based on those, I'd say NCPPR is denying that it's happening.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#32

Post by hawkharris » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 11:47 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #21

hawkharris wrote: post #5

Apple should disclose at least basic information about the scope of their investments. This is just common sense, and it's especially important at a time when investors are panicked about the future of the stock.

>>it's especially important at a time when investors are panicked about the future of the stock. Correction: some investors are panicked about the future of the stock. This is my favorite cartoon that describes how those investors operate: http://imgur.com/vuDioSI

I do appreciate that cartoon :), but I wouldn't be extremely confident about Apple stock in either direction, positive or negative. This is a period of great risk, uncertainty and — to be fair, opportunity — for the company. [0][1][2]

(Disclosure: I don't have a position in Apple.)

[0] http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/talking-numbers/why-apple-cou...

[1] http://invezz.com/news/equities/9079-apple-share-price-barcl...

[2] http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/247768001.html

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#33

Post by nl » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 11:48 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #29

jjoonathan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this group [does not deny] that climate change is occurring But their press release says > Apple is wasting untold amounts of shareholder money to combat so-called climate change. which sounds like denial to me. Would you prefer to call them "Climate Change Skeptics," the term coined by radical conservatives to attempt to paint themselves as not crazy and anti-scientific? Everyone plays the "name yourself according…

"Climate change" used to be "global warming" until that term became so strongly associated with extremists that it instantly damaged the credibility of anyone that used it. "Climate Change Skeptics" communicates the same thing as "deniers". You are missing the point. Most people agree that climate change (aka global warming) is occurring. The argument is over whether we can cause it or stop it.

Global warming dropped from use because it is inaccurate (or more precicly is too broad to be useful). While the global temperature is increasing, there are places that see a decrease. Usually this is due to either changing rainfall patterns (ie, former deserts that now get rain) or changes in ocean currents (eg the potential movement in the current that keeps the UK warm). Climate change is more accurate for people in those areas.

Semantics aside, you seem to have missed the point. This group seems to doubt it is happening at all ("so called" in this case doesn't mean they disagree with the terminology - instead they seem to doubt it is occurring)

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#34

Post by RivieraKid » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 11:48 PM UTC

I'm really sceptical and suspicious to the type of environmental policies that Apple and other companies do.

The effect on global warming is near zero, possibly even negative. The decision to use green energy decreases the price of non-green energy, so other companies will buy more of it.

I really don't like how unsystematic and non-transparent this approach is. A clean solution would be a tax on non-green energy. It would make the economy-environment tradeoff very clear.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#35

Post by jleader » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 11:48 PM UTC

Was anyone else amused by the reference to "the Al gore contingency in the room"? For non-native English speakers, I'll note that there's a noun "contingency" with a meaning related to the adjective "contingent" (meaning roughly "conditional"), but not directly related to the noun "contingent" (meaning roughly "faction").

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#36

Post by hawkharris » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 11:49 PM UTC

cgriswald wrote: post #10

hawkharris wrote: post #5

Apple should disclose at least basic information about the scope of their investments. This is just common sense, and it's especially important at a time when investors are panicked about the future of the stock.

Given that, among actual shareholders, only 2.95% voted for the proposal, I do not think they are especially panicked about the future of the stock.

This proposal is only one manifestation of investors' concerns. It doesn't follow that because 3% voted for it, only 3% are concerned about the stock, which has been downgraded for the first time in 10 years.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#37

Post by Adrock » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 11:52 PM UTC

Another take is that these kind of sustainable practices are desirable to Apple's high-value employees. By acting in a way that increases the retention of those employees and helps with recruiting new ones with similar priorities, they are investing in the company's future.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#38

Post by jjoonathan » Sun, Mar 02, 2014, 12:02 AM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #31

downandout wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Climate change" used to be "global warming" until that term became so strongly associated with extremists that it instantly damaged the credibility of anyone that used it. "Climate Change Skeptics" communicates the same thing as "deniers". You are missing the point. Most people agree that climate change (aka global warming) is occurring. The argument is over whether we can cause it or stop it.

NCPPR's page on the subject does still call it "Global Warming" though. http://www.nationalcenter.org/Kyoto.html Among their headlines: - Get a Clue, White House: The Planet Isn't Warming - Do 97% of All Climate Scientists Really Believe Mankind is Causing Catastrophic Global Warming? - Planet Hasn't Warmed Since 1997, Yet Senators Fret the News Media is Covering Actual Crises Instead of Climate Change Based on those…

> "The Planet Isn't Warming"

Wow, and here I thought "so-called" was clinching evidence. That's the value of doing your homework!

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#39

Post by Daishiman » Sun, Mar 02, 2014, 12:19 AM UTC

RivieraKid wrote: post #34

I'm really sceptical and suspicious to the type of environmental policies that Apple and other companies do. The effect on global warming is near zero, possibly even negative. The decision to use green energy decreases the price of non-green energy, so other companies will buy more of it. I really don't like how unsystematic and non-transparent this approach is. A clean solution would be a tax on non-green energy. It…

And the use of green energy goes towards investment in green energies that will lower the price of it, with the difference that the supply of nonrenewables is limited, whereas the others are not.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#40

Post by Aloha » Sun, Mar 02, 2014, 12:26 AM UTC

downandout wrote: post #8

"Climate Change Denier" is a term coined by radical environmentalists in an attempt to paint their opponents as crazy and stupid. Most rational people don't deny that climate change is occurring. Many people simply side with scientists that have examined the facts and determined that human attempts at trying to control climate change are about as effective as Indian rain dances. That said, Tim Cook's response was cor…

I agree! A focus on sustainability is a good one, carbon sequestration sounds like a great way to spend untold amounts of money.

That said, I'm pretty sure climate change is happening - but I'm not really certain its anthropogenic, and even if it is, I don't think the genie can be put back in the bottle anyhow.

I think focusing on carbon seemingly alone is a distraction, Using less resources to do a thing is a good thing anyhow, its cheaper in the long run, carbon alone doesn't get us there.