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Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

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Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#81

Post by arrrg »

firstOrder wrote: post #62
ck2 wrote: post #24

The scariest part of all of this is the 6000 mystery troops that showed up without any logos on their uniforms or carriers or tanks. They took over the border, airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say". They even blocked the coast guard from leaving their ports. Which means they had this kind of force all prepared. Can you imagine if US troops showed up somewhere in huge numbers w…

You mean like the thousands of mystery troops that showed up without any logos in Kiev, took over government buildings, the airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say"? Which means they had this kind of force all prepared.

You think those were European or US troops? Are you serious? Quit spreading the FUD. A violent revolution happened in the Ukraine, sure, but there is no indication that Europe or the US sent in any people to instigate or help with that.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#82

Post by foobarqux »

lmg643 wrote: post #75

From what I gather, Obama has some of the same foreign policy advisors as Bush did. We are pursuing some backdoor strategy to get Ukraine to join the EU. The democratically elected president chose to ally with Russia instead, because Russia offered them more. We set up riots over there, and he flees the capital. The leader is declared to be deposed, and now a leader friendly to the west can take over. Russia can't st…

> I thought Obama was supposed to be the anti-imperialist replacement for Bush?

America has been imperialist since WWII. It has nothing to do with the sitting president.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#83

Post by smsm42 »

adamlj wrote: post #8

This could turn ugly really fast. If Russia attacks Ukraine the US and Britain would have to protect the borders of Ukraine, according to a treaty signed in 1994 [0]. If the US don't follow the treaty I guess we will know how much these treatys really are worth. [0] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570335/Former-Briti...

They won't. What you expect, US going to war with a nuclear power over some territory in some third-rate country? The maximum you can expect is a couple of Obama speeches and Kerry promising an unbelievably small diplomatic effort to solve it.

So yes, all those treaties are worth something only when everybody wants to follow them, and they stop being worth paper on which they are printed as soon as one of the participants decides to break them. That's how it always worked.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#84

Post by vxxzy »

Has anyone noticed an ramp of DDOS attacks on ISPs? In the DC Metro Area, we've had a bunch of issues with Windstream, Allied Telecom, Comcast, etc... All NTP based. Not to mention the inbound call issues with ATT in the Mid-Atlantic Market. Could this be a result of Current events with Russia?

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#85

Post by davidw »

glogla wrote: post #70
raldi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People said the same thing on Slashdot after 9/11, and they were wrong then, too. Once-a-generation events, with major impacts that last for decades across an entire region of the world, transcend "news for nerds" guidelines.

Well, this is really not once per generation. They did this with Georgia and Moldavia already. And more are to follow.

And indeed, there it goes - it's dropping off the front page like a lead balloon.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#86

Post by iaskwhy »

firstOrder wrote: post #62
ck2 wrote: post #24

The scariest part of all of this is the 6000 mystery troops that showed up without any logos on their uniforms or carriers or tanks. They took over the border, airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say". They even blocked the coast guard from leaving their ports. Which means they had this kind of force all prepared. Can you imagine if US troops showed up somewhere in huge numbers w…

You mean like the thousands of mystery troops that showed up without any logos in Kiev, took over government buildings, the airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say"? Which means they had this kind of force all prepared.

You can think about this as a fashion thing: on one side you had people wearing all sort of clothes and weapons, on the other you have people wearing exactly the same clothes and weapons. So, while you might have a point, it's much harder to not identify the second group as an official army not showing who's leading them.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#87

Post by inanov »

wow! everyone was just silent after the "revolution". no one said a single word about the right-wing armed forces. now the news are back in the front page of HN, cool... and meaningful in terms of timing, as one of those politics guys says in my country.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#89

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

rangibaby wrote: post #31
StephenFalken wrote: post #14

It would be interesting to discuss how Ukraine got into this kind of situation ([1] [2]) and what are the "natural" consequences of it. Somehow it feels we are not dealing with a single country anymore. [1] http://i.imgur.com/1iiXqHN.jpg [2] http://i.imgur.com/eNo56LZ.jpg

Crimea is "Russian", it was granted from the Russian SSR to the Ukrainian SSR by Khrushchev in the 50s. It's interesting that the situation is playing out pretty much according to this blog post: http://cluborlov.blogspot.jp/2014/02/shock-over-ukraine.html "Most of them don't even know what it is they are protesting, but, in essence, they are protesting the very existence of their country, which is made up of two par…

Ukraine has never been controlled by the government of the Russian Federation.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#90

Post by dschiptsov »

It is too complicated to discuss here. First of all, the naval bases, gas pipeling infrastructure were build in Soviet times using resources of whole Soviet union. After its collapse in 90th everything became messy, but old strategic interests were respected.

These events has very simple cause - too avoid any shift of control over strategic resources of former Soviet Union to pro-EU oligarchy and eventually EU capital which which Russia cannot compete.

The other question is a moral one - does the interests of Russian oligarchs, controlling Gazprom, who "inherited" Soviet infrastructure should be reinforced by military operations?

At least it is not an ethnic conflict, just conflict of interest.

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