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Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

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Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#31

Post by rangibaby »

StephenFalken wrote: post #14

It would be interesting to discuss how Ukraine got into this kind of situation ([1] [2]) and what are the "natural" consequences of it. Somehow it feels we are not dealing with a single country anymore. [1] http://i.imgur.com/1iiXqHN.jpg [2] http://i.imgur.com/eNo56LZ.jpg

Crimea is "Russian", it was granted from the Russian SSR to the Ukrainian SSR by Khrushchev in the 50s.

It's interesting that the situation is playing out pretty much according to this blog post: http://cluborlov.blogspot.jp/2014/02/shock-over-ukraine.html

"Most of them don't even know what it is they are protesting, but, in essence, they are protesting the very existence of their country, which is made up of two parts: Eastern Poland, which is Ukrainian-speaking and predominantly Catholic, and Western Russia, which is Russian-speaking and predominantly Orthodox. The “Russians” outnumber the “Ukrainians” two to one. The ultimate resolution to the crisis lies in partitioning the country. Nobody has the stomach to even talk about it—yet. But until that happens we will continue being subjected to this strange spectacle, where every single actor in Ukraine does everything possible to undermine the country's political system. Deep down, the Ukrainians don't want there to be a different government in Kiev—they don't want there to be a government in Kiev at all."

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#32

Post by brown9-2 »

ck2 wrote: post #24

The scariest part of all of this is the 6000 mystery troops that showed up without any logos on their uniforms or carriers or tanks. They took over the border, airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say". They even blocked the coast guard from leaving their ports. Which means they had this kind of force all prepared. Can you imagine if US troops showed up somewhere in huge numbers w…

I think the strange/comical part of this is that Russia thought that "we'll just take off our logos" was a good strategy for keeping a secret or saving face.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#33

Post by kievins »

gk1 wrote: post #17

See what happened in Ukraine's neighboring country, Moldova, 24 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Transnistria Moldova had a population of ethnic Russians that lived on the Eastern bank of the river D'niest'r. (Similar to the Crimean region in Ukraine.) Eventually a civil war broke out, and Russia stepped in to back the ethnically Russian region (sound familiar?). The end result was a stalemate. A ceasef…

Same thing happened in Georgia in 2008. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)#The_South_Oss...

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#34

Post by zeckalpha »

"The potential strike by the [Russian Federation] against [Ukraine], despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond [Ukraine]’s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the [Chechnya] problem and the [Syrian] conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance." – Vladimir Putin, six months ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opinion/putin-plea-for-cau...

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#35

Post by trycatch »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #9
mahoro wrote: post #7

Parliament approved (by 100% votes). Unbelievable.

My reaction as well. I suppose it must be true that United Russia are rigging all the polls.

That's normal for Russia, sadly. Yesterday there was a voting about mandatory registration of all web sites in Roskomnadzor (heavily controversial bill). 438 for, 0 against, 0 abstained. Russian democracy.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#36

Post by rangibaby »

ck2 wrote: post #24

The scariest part of all of this is the 6000 mystery troops that showed up without any logos on their uniforms or carriers or tanks. They took over the border, airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say". They even blocked the coast guard from leaving their ports. Which means they had this kind of force all prepared. Can you imagine if US troops showed up somewhere in huge numbers w…

The Russians have this kind of force prepared because of their naval base at Sevastopol.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#37

Post by bananas »

noir_lord wrote: post #26
bananas wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there another source other than the daily mail i.e. one with an ounce of credibility?

Good on you for not trusting the Daily Mail, it's not even a rag at this point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security...

Depends what you're wiping with it ;)

Thanks for posting a more balanced and altogether less scary sounding article with references.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#38

Post by enraged_camel »

davidw wrote: post #12
xixixao wrote: post #6

I am glad this has finally got to the top of HN. People should be aware of the fact that a part of sovereign country is being aggressively annexed by their neighbor. And there is virtually no opposition to Putin in Russia.

> I am glad this has finally got to the top of HN Because once HN is aware of it, we'll... uhm... Send Putin some nasty Perl scripts? This, like almost all political / breaking news stories, is probably off topic for this site, given the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Video…

I really wish "complaining about stuff being off-topic" was also against the guidelines.

Oh wait, it is:

"Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did."

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#39

Post by lambda »

bananas wrote: post #20
adamlj wrote: post #8

This could turn ugly really fast. If Russia attacks Ukraine the US and Britain would have to protect the borders of Ukraine, according to a treaty signed in 1994 [0]. If the US don't follow the treaty I guess we will know how much these treatys really are worth. [0] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570335/Former-Briti...

Is there another source other than the daily mail i.e. one with an ounce of credibility?

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Securit...

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#40

Post by gk1 »

brown9-2 wrote: post #32
ck2 wrote: post #24

The scariest part of all of this is the 6000 mystery troops that showed up without any logos on their uniforms or carriers or tanks. They took over the border, airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say". They even blocked the coast guard from leaving their ports. Which means they had this kind of force all prepared. Can you imagine if US troops showed up somewhere in huge numbers w…

I think the strange/comical part of this is that Russia thought that "we'll just take off our logos" was a good strategy for keeping a secret or saving face.

My guess is it's just to give them short-term deniability. By the time anyone proves who they are it'll be too late.
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