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"Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

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Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#51

Post by mikhailt »

jasonlotito wrote: post #46
microtonal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is clearly a difference between the US and the EU. Most EU citizens (including me) think it is fine to regulate the market, e.g. if it is misleading. Such games are often misleading, since they are not really free. The 'Free' label is just used because people will impulse-install a free application more quickly than a paid application and in the end an addicted gamer will probably spend more through in-app purch…

Apple already does this. I am literally looking at a game right now in the App Store and it's free and Apple makes it very clear that it offers IAPs. It even gives you a list of the Top IAPs. So, listing every IAP, it does not do. But beyond that, it gives you exactly what is being asked.

Except there are confusion when Apple markets it as the "Free Game of the Week". Many people thought this meant IAP was free as well.

Say "Free game of the week with paid IAP still included", I don't have a problem with this.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#52

Post by ZeroGravitas »

whiddershins wrote: post #31

What about advertising? It consumes my time and attention, which is generally worth more (at least to me) than a few bucks. And advertising can have a powerful affect on susceptible minds. By this logic, all advertisement-supported games should be clearly marked as well.

I don't mind "advertising" per se, e.g there's lego apps for kids that, like Saturday morning cartoons, could be viewed basically as advertisements, but are reasonable experiences in themselves.

On the other hand the apps that throw up full screen ads with tiny, hidden close buttons are annoying. Mostly they seem designed to provoke accidental clicks, which don't seem to offer any social value at all.

(Also, no one seems to note that fake free apps are undermining honest for pay apps, a model which people here seem to support).

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#53

Post by djur »

baddox wrote: post #36
djur wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of us, individually, are just single people. We don't have a lot of money. We don't have a lot of clout. Apple is very big. It has a lot of people, and a lot of money, and a lot of clout. Government is the countervailing force that, collectively, weak citizens can use to push back against private power. The word isn't "nanny", it's "guardian". It's "advocate".

There's a lot of mental gymnastics going on in your comment. Both Apple and government are simply a bunch of individuals. The difference is which group contains individuals that will use violence against people to get its way regardless of the people's consent.

The difference is which group derives its power from the consent of the governed, actually.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#54

Post by jasonlotito »

djur wrote: post #48
jasonlotito wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, you want the government to protect you from games that are really, 100% free, but provide IAP for additional things that might enhance your enjoyment of the free game. Seriously, take some responsibility.

I didn't say anything about in-app purchases at all. I don't use mobile phone apps, so I don't know much about that market. If products are being sold deceptively, there's a public interest in preventing that. Responsibility has nothing to do with it.

> I didn't say anything about in-app purchases at all.

So? That's part of the conversation? Either join in or leave.

> If products are being sold deceptively

They aren't. They are free. Money doesn't exchange hands. You are getting a game you can play for free.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#55

Post by brudgers »

nnutter wrote: post #18

Personally I would like to see iAP to be considered like advertising and for it to be more heavily regulated at child audiences. Tired of my 4 year old crying because I won't let him spend another $4 to unlock another widget.

Next time a child asks for permission to make an in app purchase, turn off the electronics go down to the creek and jump in puddles together.

They are only four once. It's right now or it doesn't happen. There's no second chance.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#56

Post by jasonlotito »

mikhailt wrote: post #51
jasonlotito wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple already does this. I am literally looking at a game right now in the App Store and it's free and Apple makes it very clear that it offers IAPs. It even gives you a list of the Top IAPs. So, listing every IAP, it does not do. But beyond that, it gives you exactly what is being asked.

Except there are confusion when Apple markets it as the "Free Game of the Week". Many people thought this meant IAP was free as well. Say "Free game of the week with paid IAP still included", I don't have a problem with this.

Sorry, but it tells you the cost, right on the damn screen. It's not hidden. It literally tells you the price. This is well after you've already downloaded the free app. So you have the game. You are inside, and their are prices next to it.

I mean, damn. Do these same people go to a club, get in for free, and then wonder why they still have to pay for drinks?

> Say "Free game of the week with paid IAP still included", I don't have a problem with this.

I guarantee that using that wording, people would think that the paid IAP was included with the "Free game of the week." I mean, they are already dumb enough to see a price and ignore it.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#58

Post by djur »

jasonlotito wrote: post #54
djur wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say anything about in-app purchases at all. I don't use mobile phone apps, so I don't know much about that market. If products are being sold deceptively, there's a public interest in preventing that. Responsibility has nothing to do with it.

> I didn't say anything about in-app purchases at all. So? That's part of the conversation? Either join in or leave. > If products are being sold deceptively They aren't. They are free. Money doesn't exchange hands. You are getting a game you can play for free.

You said "[j]ust to be clear, you want the government to protect you". I clarified your misconception. The hostile attitude is unwarranted.

Alternatively: Me leave? After you, pal.

As to your second point: The product being sold in question is the in-app purchase, not the original app. The app, however, could be part of a deceptive marketing practice.

Not being a citizen of a EU member state nor an expert in its legal system, I am content to leave this decision up to its regulatory apparatus. If the citizens of any EU member country are dissatisfied, they can elect governments that will leave the union, or elect Members of European Parliament that will change the rules.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#59

Post by rytis »

taspeotis wrote: post #8

When I look at free games on the App Store I see if it says "offers in-app purchases". If it does I look at the in-app purchases. If the in-app purchases are "x00 Special In-Game Currency Units" then I don't install the game. Not sure we need legislation to avoid being ripped off...

I think it'd be a good thing to do. You have a process in place, and enough self discipline to avoid installing such apps. But not everyone is like that. I'm guessing majority of the users go like this: "ah, it's a free app, great, I'll get it. Oh, what do I do now? £0.99 is not too bad, I'll just get another pack of , so I don't have to wait 30 mins".

Can people self-regulate and avoid behaving like that? Yes. Do they? I doubt it.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#60

Post by jasonlotito »

mikhailt wrote: post #49
jasonlotito wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WTF? Those SaaS/PaaS usually make clear what the plan cover and don't cover. WTF? Those free games don't cost you a thing, too! And damn, if you don't want to pay, you don't have to. Apple tells you straight out if a game, free or otherwise, has IAP. They provide you with prices. What more do you want? > I do have a problem with companies saying those are free games where they aren't free and have paid requirements…

> ..damn, if you don't want to pay, you don't have to. Apple tells you straight out if a game, free or otherwise, has IAP. They provide you with prices. If they're saying it's the free game of the week, people actually understood it to mean it's actually free. Several of my friends and family members got confused with this and actually thought the IAP was free as well. > So... your problem is that you don't enjoy som…

You: "What does enjoyment have to do with anything?"

You from a parent comment: "Their free app of the week is often so-called free games but they almost always have in-app purchases that's required to actually enjoy the game."

> Several of my friends and family members got confused with this and actually thought the IAP was free as well.

Yep. I'm done.

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