We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It • Hacker News Board

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#251

Post by prawn » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 11:06 PM UTC

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #224

pmichaud wrote: post #179

There are definitely amazing, luxurious aspects of programming. Something came into view for me recently though, that I never realized before: When I graduated from high school, I started my own little (tutoring) company, and did software from after that, so I never had the experience of a "normal", hourly job, like retail or coal mining or whatever. Recently I had an opportunity to do a job like that and the mood st…

"But it's also a coal mine of its own sort." Go work a physically taxing job for a couple weeks then come back and say that.

"...of its own sort."

i.e., not making a direct comparison about the physicality of the work...

I remember reading about a guy who gave up the freelance web game to become a lumberjack and loved it. Physically hard, but easy to switch off and relax at the end of the day. I think it was on HN a few years back when I first joined.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#252

Post by jtoeman » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 11:07 PM UTC

benched wrote: post #243

jtoeman wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW those people "talking" or "whatever" are quite likely creating some of the business opportunities for your code to sit in and make you the money. The number of times when coding=(lots of)money without some of the "whatever" involved is fairly rare.

I'm just saying, few jobs have analogs to "accountability to logic", "accountability to the compiler", "accountability to the unit tests" and so on. Surgeons have it. Engineers have it. Even people who do sales have it. But you know there are a lot of service, middle-management, and executive jobs where no rubber meeting road really occurs.

yes, and there are a lot of programmer jobs where the same is true as well - maybe as a percentage it's less than in a sales role, but it still exists.

but it actually doesn't really matter - you choose to be a programmer, so you choose to put yourself into a role that requires such accountability. i'm sure you are quite qualified to be a barista, but would you get satisfaction? doubt it.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#253

Post by 1Percenter » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 11:15 PM UTC

Learn to markdown

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#254

Post by walshemj » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 11:37 PM UTC

dylandrop wrote: post #206

pmichaud wrote: post #179

There are definitely amazing, luxurious aspects of programming. Something came into view for me recently though, that I never realized before: When I graduated from high school, I started my own little (tutoring) company, and did software from after that, so I never had the experience of a "normal", hourly job, like retail or coal mining or whatever. Recently I had an opportunity to do a job like that and the mood st…

> Yes, it's luxury in many ways. But it's also a coal mine of its own sort. Except you won't die from sitting home in your pajamas. You will, however, be very to die for a multitude of reasons in a coal mine. I'm a programmer. Yes, my brain is engaged constantly. But that's fun to me. It's not like I rue the day I became a programmer and I had to perform the terrible labor of sitting around with friends/acquaintances…

Actually in the developed world mining deaths are a lot lower than they used to be - fishermen have some of the most dangerous jobs

And at a supervisory/professional level in the UK, coal mining deputy's can earn £80-£100k PA (twice what the average dev in London gets paid)- the going rate for a single 12 hour shift at the weekend is £2k

I was one a course (on TUPE a really acne bit of uk employment law) and 3 of the other attendees where from the mining industry and shared some figures with us.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#255

Post by walshemj » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 11:45 PM UTC

khuey wrote: post #58

throwaway812 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think your facts are a bit off and reflect HN insularity. The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 ( household ). Even if you are the sole earner in your household, it is still unlikely that you make less than $62,500. If you do make less than that, ask for a raise. If you don't make less than that, or your combined household income is more tha…

Software engineers are concentrated in major metropolitan areas, often high cost ones (e.g. the SF bay area), so comparisons to the national median income are not necessarily accurate.

You would need to compare it to other professions lawyers/medical doctors and other types of engineers - and I woudl bet that the median for those working in the tech industry's is lower than MD's and lawyers

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#256

Post by Suncho » Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 12:10 AM UTC

The biggest problem with this whole situation is that we, as a society, are forcing people to work when our economy doesn't need them to. If we needed people to work, then the jobs would create themselves. There would be no talk of job creation. It would happen on its own.

And people don't need jobs either. They never did. They need food and money. Jobs just used to be an appropriate way to obtain those things.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#257

Post by aidenn0 » Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 12:13 AM UTC

tapostrophemo wrote: post #245

aidenn0 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have three kids as well, and have some small hope to offer (assuming your kids are young): once the kids are at elementary school age, the financial situation gets a bit easier. After school activities typically cost less than preschool, and your wife may be able to get part-time work at that point. Also note: with 3 kids, there is likely no place in the US where it is cheaper to send your kids to a mediocre privat…

"...cheaper...to just move to a better school district..." Unless, of course, you're stuck underwater in a house that you'd lose lots of money on if you sold it.

Yeah, if you have a negative net-worth, you're in trouble.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#258

Post by vkjv » Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 12:14 AM UTC

lectrick wrote: post #223

dylandrop wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, it's luxury in many ways. But it's also a coal mine of its own sort. Except you won't die from sitting home in your pajamas. You will, however, be very to die for a multitude of reasons in a coal mine. I'm a programmer. Yes, my brain is engaged constantly. But that's fun to me. It's not like I rue the day I became a programmer and I had to perform the terrible labor of sitting around with friends/acquaintances…

Sedentary jobs have sedentary risks: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/even-with-e... I own a GeekDesk and swear by it. Standing sometimes while coding makes a difference!

I was interested in these, but, zomg, it's hard to take the company seriously with that faux-hawk dude on the front page.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#259

Post by ziel » Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 12:20 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #149

seanccox wrote: post #60

Let's be careful with that term, "luxury". You're a well-paid and comparatively comfortable wage slave, but just because you don't have to labor in a mine or a burger joint doesn't mean you are experiencing luxury. Luxury is what these people are living: http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/ We would all do well to remember that the first 85 people on that list have as much wealth as the 3.5 billion poorest people in t…

One of the interesting things that has happened with the increase in inequality is the ability for more people to say, "No, I'm not rich. that guy is rich." Because as inequality rises, the people you compare yourselves to are much further away than they used to be. That's how people making 10x the median income can, with a straight face, declare themselves to be "middle class". Inequality itself is used to justify o…

I agree with you that what we have is luxury compared to much of the world. Like you, I've seen this first-hand.

What I think is often missing from these discussions though, is that working a low paying job in New York City, for example, also affords considerable luxury compared to much of the developing world. That hypothetical person working that low paying job might not feel that s/he is living in luxury -- without some agreement on what constitutes basic comfort, it's quite difficult to define luxury.

The problem, which I think you've identified well, is that even the idea of basic comfort shifts as the economic landscape shifts. When the idea of basic needs shifts, the idea of wealth shifts with it.

In general, I think it's good for those of us living in privileged areas to recognize our blessings. I also think comparisons made to the developing world tend to oversimplify the problems of inequality present here as well.

Also, not to single this comment out on the middle class thing, but I've seen a few comments here which are equating middle class with median income. Middle class is a social construct. It's not well defined.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#260

Post by jebblue » Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 12:24 AM UTC

There was a story on the local news last night that a bus driver in Austin is making $117K. Just throwing it out there, like, what if you really like driving a bus but only get paid $20K. That would suck. But if you like it and can get paid 6 figures then I'd say that would be very cool. I knew a guy in high school who dreamed and talked of nothing but owning and driving his own bug rig. He was a pretty sharp guy, he just wanted his own truck and the open road.