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We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

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Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#211

Post by coldtea »

nostrademons wrote: post #169
Touche wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I was alluding to with my comment was that software developers create a tremendous amount of wealth while seeing little of it. That is as true outside SV as it is inside.

I'd encourage you to set up shop as an entrepreneur, consultant, or ISV. Then you will a.) get to keep all of the wealth you create (well, minus taxes - damn you Uncle Sam) and b.) get a true idea of how much wealth you actually create. Personally, I've done both the entrepreneur and employee route, and I created and kept a whole lot more money as an employee. I may go back to being an entrepreneur in the future - I'…

>I'd encourage you to set up shop as an entrepreneur, consultant, or ISV. Then you will a.) get to keep all of the wealth you create (well, minus taxes - damn you Uncle Sam) and b.) get a true idea of how much wealth you actually create.

Or you know, you'll get an inflated idea of how much you "actually" created, just because you get to tell people what to do, and belittle their contributions because, after all you are in charge.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#212

Post by mgkimsal »

pmichaud wrote: post #179

There are definitely amazing, luxurious aspects of programming. Something came into view for me recently though, that I never realized before: When I graduated from high school, I started my own little (tutoring) company, and did software from after that, so I never had the experience of a "normal", hourly job, like retail or coal mining or whatever. Recently I had an opportunity to do a job like that and the mood st…

"hours of intense focus"? really? Most software developers I know - highly paid ones - rarely put in more than 4 hours at stretch ever. The 'pomodoro' technique popular a few years ago focused on getting people to work for 25 minutes at a stretch.

I'm not saying the work is not sometimes mentally taxing - it is. But so are other jobs. CPAs trying to juggle way too much info days before tax day - and tax day doesn't move - you can't push that back - the pressure mounts and there's nothing you can do about it. MANY software projects get pushed back days/weeks just because of any number of factors (some big, some trivial).

And... it's not mentally taxing to some people. There are things I sweat in development that other people do with their eyes closed. And vice versa - I've cleaned up projects in a few days that a small team of people "fired on all cylinders" to get done (and failed).

As I replied elsewhere effort and value are pretty disconnected.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#213

Post by parennoob »

seizethecheese wrote: post #201
pmichaud wrote: post #179

There are definitely amazing, luxurious aspects of programming. Something came into view for me recently though, that I never realized before: When I graduated from high school, I started my own little (tutoring) company, and did software from after that, so I never had the experience of a "normal", hourly job, like retail or coal mining or whatever. Recently I had an opportunity to do a job like that and the mood st…

Hmm, so you took one job and feel like that is enough of a basis for making conclusions? - Have you tried being a commercial dishwasher? I have. That's 8 straight hours of monotonous, yet highly demanding work attention-wise. $9/hr. - Have you been a line cook? I have. That's 8 straight hours of monotonous, physical work plus a pretty painful burn at least once a day. $10/hr. Okay, fine I take your point that program…

He is a programmer at $100/hr who has to tax his brain a lot in near-total isolation. The aspects of how this is bad for you may be different from those of a dishwasher or a line cook. Some therapists charge more than $100/hr for just listening to people's mental problems for an hour and suggesting new ways of thinking about stuff. But we don't see said therapists telling each other, "Oh, our jobs are so cushy and luxurious. Try being a line cook!"

Programming is monotonous, socially isolating, and probably leads to a higher risk of things like heart disease and diabetes from all the time we spend sitting around. These aspects of it shouldn't be neglected because a dishwasher or a line cook makes less money for more immediate physical risk.

"Okay, fine I take your point that programming requires heavy dedication to skill. Have you ever worked in accounting? My fiancee works as an accountant and is constantly pushed to work over 70 hrs per week and her job is extremely demanding. (She's the only one at her company that can figure out certain processes, hence the long hours and pressure. She currently is doing the work of 4 people.) $20/ hr."

This is replying to an anecdote with yet another anecdote, which I don't think is terribly helpful. As a sincere suggestion, has she tried negotiating for a raise? Seems like their reliance on her as a single point of failure should make for a good negotiating position.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#214

Post by sliverstorm »

learc83 wrote: post #62
aasarava wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is the hack that keeps us from constantly taking our luxuries for granted? Just as with the traffic situation, how often do we find ourselves complaining about having to do the laundry or the dishes or vacuuming or even heating up something for dinner -- all fairly small and easy tasks thanks to the help of technology, which took much more time and labor in a previous generation? Yes, it's true that the compl…

>So what is the hack that keeps us from constantly taking our luxuries for granted? There is no hack. Humans are wired to seek novelty. Novelty by definition wears off. The best thing I've found is to try to seek novelty in creating rather than consuming, but our very nature ensures contentedness is an elusive goal. Many people attempt to attain contentedness through religion. I'm religious myself, but I think that m…

Rather, I would say that we normalize to anything. It's awful for sustaining happiness, but pretty good for fighting unhappiness. Think of it this way; our lives are 100x better than those of our ancestors, and yet we aren't much happier. That means the people who lived to be thirty and rubbed sticks together to make fire, were no less happy. That is a powerful thing.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#215

Post by acangiano »

TsomArp wrote: post #146
markkanof wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd add that not only are we comparing ourselves to actual people that are the "best and brightest", but also to a mental conglomeration of success stories that somehow feel like they are all done by a single super human even though rationally you know you are thinking of the small individual achievements of thousands or millions of other people. In the face of that kind of comparison, it's hard not to a bit down occ…

Exactly what I was thinking the other day. You came to HW, for example, and it seems it is just one very bright person when in fact it is thousands.

Not only that, you are comparing your 'behind the scenes' to the comulative showreel.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#216

Post by parennoob »

dylandrop wrote: post #206
pmichaud wrote: post #179

There are definitely amazing, luxurious aspects of programming. Something came into view for me recently though, that I never realized before: When I graduated from high school, I started my own little (tutoring) company, and did software from after that, so I never had the experience of a "normal", hourly job, like retail or coal mining or whatever. Recently I had an opportunity to do a job like that and the mood st…

> Yes, it's luxury in many ways. But it's also a coal mine of its own sort. Except you won't die from sitting home in your pajamas. You will, however, be very to die for a multitude of reasons in a coal mine. I'm a programmer. Yes, my brain is engaged constantly. But that's fun to me. It's not like I rue the day I became a programmer and I had to perform the terrible labor of sitting around with friends/acquaintances…

> Except you won't die from sitting home in your pajamas.

Not sure this is true. Working alone from home in a sedentary job probably raises his risk for diabetes, heart disease, and depression and related diseases; and contributes to an earlier death.

I don't have any data as to whether the average life expectancy of a programmer is less than the average life expectancy of a coal miner. Do you?

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#218

Post by whitef0x »

I think it is like anything. Every job has its benefits and its tradeoffs. It is just that different jobs have different benefits and tradeoffs for different people. If you enjoy your job as a programmer and you enjoy applying algorithms to real world problem then yes, I agree it is a luxurious job.

However if you hate programming (which means you shouldn't be doing this job) but for some reason (financial, social, etc) you continue to work in this field then the tradeoffs could outweigh the benefits.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#219

Post by whitef0x »

I think it is like anything. Every job has its benefits and its tradeoffs. It is just that different jobs have different benefits and tradeoffs for different people. If you enjoy your job as a programmer and you enjoy applying algorithms to real world problem then yes, I agree it is a luxurious job.

However if you hate programming (which means you shouldn't be doing this job) but for some reason (financial, social, etc) you continue to work in this field then the tradeoffs could outweigh the benefits.

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