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Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

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Re: Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

#41

Post by denzil_correa »

cabinpark wrote: post #13
denzil_correa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there people who are actually paying for their PhDs? Yes, there are. I know Cornell(USA) has had such positions. But yes, it is definitely not a norm.

Wow that's the worst. I would NEVER pay for a PhD out of my own pocket. I mean, yes the PhD isn't "free" in the sense of I don't pay tuition. I do but it's included in my funding. I asked a former university staffer about it once and they told me the money doesn't exist. The university "charges" me x dollars per term, but in my funding there is conveniently an extra x dollars per term in addition to my y salary from…

> What subjects were these PhDs in by the way?

I am talking specifically about Computer Science. This is not even a modern instance. The first case I've heard about is in 1999.

Re: Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

#42

Post by p4bl0 »

kaeluka wrote: post #36
alkonaut wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a cultural difference in whether PhD studies are seen as an add-on education after normal university studies, or if it is an employment as a teacher+researcher. In Sweden it's the latter, so students are employed as PhD students and get a salary (though usually not very competitive compared to what you would make if working elsewhere). The fact that the PhD students spend a lot of time teaching and not only…

I'm a PhD student in Sweden. I'm expected to work 20% of my time for the University (teaching duties, conference organisation, mentoring new phd students). I'm getting payed a little bit lower than what the industry would pay. It's possible that salaries in the industry would also raise quicker. My PhD is supposed to take 4 years of research, but add in the 20% and you have 5 years. I have very high job security and…

> I'm getting payed a little bit lower than what the industry would pay.

You mean for a "normal" (if I may) industry job or for doing a PhD within the industry?

Because before starting my PhD, the salaries that I've been proposed by recruiters from various companies were more like the double (and sometimes more, like with Google or high frequency trading firms) of what I'm making as a PhD student (but for a way less fun job, as you say).

Re: Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

#43

Post by denzil_correa »

p4bl0 wrote: post #22
denzil_correa wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't know that people were paying to do a PhD anywhere on earth. Some universities ask for tuition fee.

Right but that's usually very low, isn't it? I mean if it's approximately a tenth of what you get paid by month and you have to pay it only once per year (which is the case for France), it doesn't really count as paying to do a PhD.

Some universities do not really fund a student. They are low but I have heard of such cases. I was surprised and I find it quite weird. I wonder if students actually take up such an option.

Re: Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

#44

Post by p4bl0 »

hessenwolf wrote: post #40
p4bl0 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, it seems to be the same as in France then: PhD students here have a real work contract and a student status (which comes as anywhere with many advantages). However we have mostly 3 years long PhDs, and the teaching hours are limited. The law actually states the minimum salary for a PhD student. It is approximately 1650€ "brut" (before social taxes) which amounts to 1350€ "net" (what you actually get each month).…

I assume you mean staff status? Mine was great - as they cancelled my astronomical library fines.

Astronomical library fines, really? I never heard of library fines that were more than a few dozen of euros for student. Well I guess that is yet another advantage of being in France that I didn't even knew I had :-).

But no I did meant student status, which means most museums are free for instance, and discounts for many things such as public transportations, movie theaters, etc.

Re: Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

#45

Post by rahimnathwani »

vrikis wrote: post #31
agilebyte wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The explanation given to me was: it is possible to discriminate between students from different parts of an individual member state but not to discriminate against those from other parts of the EU.

Exactly that, plus Scots going to study in England had to pay their fees. As a side note though, if Scotland becomes independent when voted later on this year, then "Thousands of English, Welsh and Northern Irish students will study at Scottish universities for free" [1] [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/102...

if Scotland becomes independent ... "... English, Welsh and Northern Irish students will study at Scottish universities for free..."

This assumes that an independent Scotland would be a member of the EU, which is far from certain:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/impossible...

Re: Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

#46

Post by n0mad_0 »

jebus989 wrote: post #35

Undergrad for free == interesting and not all that common (though does happen elsewhere in EU, e.g. Austria) PhD for free != interesting, I'm paid a tax-free stipend (UK) which also covers tuition fees (same for MSc). There are "self-funded" positions advertised but it's generally junior faculty trying their luck for overseas students. I've never heard of anyone actually paying out of their own pocket for PhD study i…

> I've never heard of anyone actually paying out of their own pocket for PhD study in the EU.

That probably also indicates that phd is only for those who managed to find funding. Is it hard to secure funding for studies in the UK for the UK or EU nationals?

Re: Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

#47

Post by Ihmahr »

p4bl0 wrote: post #7

I didn't know that people were paying to do a PhD anywhere on earth. In France I'm fairly sure it is even forbidden to do a PhD without getting paid (if you don't you have to justify that you have incomes by other means or something to be able to register as a PhD student).

Same here in the Netherlands. Nearly free? How about a salary of €2000 - 2700 per month? Base salary for a policeman or school teacher is ~ €1900

Re: Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

#48

Post by nmc »

p4bl0 wrote: post #7

I didn't know that people were paying to do a PhD anywhere on earth. In France I'm fairly sure it is even forbidden to do a PhD without getting paid (if you don't you have to justify that you have incomes by other means or something to be able to register as a PhD student).

You are "fairly sure" but very wrong. Let us clarify (all of the following is about French PhD programmes).

1. The criteria for selecting a student for a PhD are publicly established by each doctoral school. They do not require any justification of income/wealth.

2. PhD students are not required to sign any contract or to be paid any salary.

2.1. Some of them have a "doctoral contract" (a new thing created in 2009 specially for PhD students), some are public servants, some have signed regular employment contracts of three years specifically for the PhD. However, a large part do not get any benefit from the doctoral school: they are either unemployed, or have a job unrelated to their PhD.

2.2. The director of the doctoral school is supposed to check that all conditions, including financial ones, are met so the student can work well.

* * *

Addendum:

- At the beginning of the 2000s, 30% of students dropping out of their PhD said it was "for financial reasons" [1].

- PhD students are almost always enrolled in a university, or in an institution related to the doctoral school. This is about 500€/year if you are lucky enough to be French, but can go up to 7000€/year if you are from outside the EU.

- Some institutions, for instance some Écoles des Mines or the École Polytechnique, still pay PhD students an "informal salary" without any employment contract [2]. This is in a grey zone, legally speaking.

* * *

[1] Philippe Moguérou, Jake Murdoch, Jean-Jacques Paul. "Les déterminants de l’abandon en thèse", 10es Journées d'études Céreq, 2003-05-23. http://web.archive.org/web/20070928014312/http://www.cereq.f...

[2] Anne Jouan. "Des doctorants étrangers travaillent encore au noir", Le Figaro, 2008-10-20. http://www.lefigaro.fr/formation/2008/10/20/01015-20081020AR...

Re: Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

#49

Post by p4bl0 »

nmc wrote: post #48
p4bl0 wrote: post #7

I didn't know that people were paying to do a PhD anywhere on earth. In France I'm fairly sure it is even forbidden to do a PhD without getting paid (if you don't you have to justify that you have incomes by other means or something to be able to register as a PhD student).

You are "fairly sure" but very wrong . Let us clarify (all of the following is about French PhD programmes). 1. The criteria for selecting a student for a PhD are publicly established by each doctoral school. They do not require any justification of income/wealth. 2. PhD students are not required to sign any contract or to be paid any salary . 2.1. Some of them have a "doctoral contract" (a new thing created in 2009…

Okay. In my doctoral school and the 3 or 4 other that I know of (because friends are there) it's not possible to register as a PhD student without an income justification (you of course don't need to provide it if you are paid by state or one of the universities/school to which the doctoral school is attached). I wasn't entirely sure if it was just a coincidence or if it was the law. Thanks for clarifying this.

BTW, just saw your webpage: hi from an Ulmite to a Cachanais ;).

Re: Getting a PhD in Norway is nearly free--even if you're not a citizen

#50

Post by agilebyte »

gu wrote: post #32
agilebyte wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of some people that paid for their PhD (UK) only to be "recommended" to not continue and leaving with an MPhil.

This could happen in the US as well, if I'm not mistaken. There is normally a requirement that you have to be in "good standing" during the first one or two years of your PhD when you're mostly doing course work.

Yes, I have a sneaking suspicion that an MPhil (= failed PhD in a lot of fields, so useless) is sometimes being sold as a PhD experience to people that are simply not good enough.
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