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Why I stopped being a voluntourist

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121–130 of 186 posts

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#121
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"let's make the move garbage from one trash can to the other all day and if they finish early make them move it back" Perhaps you were going for humor but locally some (mostly religious) high schools have mandatory required volunteer (LOL) graduation requirements, and criminal court "community service" also means work at the same recycling center, so you end up with a weird and probably very unhealthy mixture of ex-c…

Well, the teens learn some discipline and following orders. The criminals learn not to do whatever it is that got them community service. Everyone wins.

I think the fear is the mixture. So you take impressionable youth and force them under legal obligation to spend more time with elders of their socioeconomic group who selected a life of crime often than time spent with their own parents. What could possibly go wrong? Optimistically they'll be scared straight, but ...

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#122
post #14

Most Peace Corps type voluntourism works on the premise that throwing "white" folks into a country and telling them to fix things will generate results. This is because, you know, we understand the incredibly complex social, economic, political, and cultural dynamics of countries better than they know themselves. We're better educated, and if these backwards countries would just start doing XYZ they'd start to lift t…

Sometimes, problems are easier to understand (and solve) looking at them from the outside, instead of being right in the middle.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You'll definitely have a positive effect on people by teaching them about western business practices." This is the most ethnocentric thing I've read in quite a long time. Much of the world would be better off, in my opinion, having never learned first hand about western business practices. Western business practices have caused a vast amount of destruction in the developing world.

Treating low skill commodity workers as human beings on the same social level as yourself is such a destructive western practice. So is hiring a stranger with a great github rather than your brother in law, hiring a woman if she is the most qualified, etc. Or there is that destructive western practice of managing by output - the boss is working until 8pm but you can go home as soon as you hit your quota. Blaming west…

> So is hiring a stranger with a great github rather than your brother in law, hiring a woman if she is the most qualified, etc.

Oh, such wonderful news. So height is not a requirement for positions of power now! Someone should change the wiki page. And well, it might just be sheer coincidence that many big names in India have women CXOs. The western style management has ensured that women in the west are very well empowered to reach positions of power without any gender bias troubling them.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#124
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treating low skill commodity workers as human beings on the same social level as yourself is such a destructive western practice. So is hiring a stranger with a great github rather than your brother in law, hiring a woman if she is the most qualified, etc. Or there is that destructive western practice of managing by output - the boss is working until 8pm but you can go home as soon as you hit your quota. Blaming west…

> Treating low skill commodity workers as human beings on the same social level as yourself is such a destructive western practice. So is hiring a stranger with a great github rather than your brother in law, hiring a woman if she is the most qualified, etc. Or there is that destructive western practice of managing by output - the boss is working until 8pm but you can go home as soon as you hit your quota. I really d…

If it is your assumption that every firm/organization in India follows nepotism and doesn't value true merit, it would be simply a wrong assumption...

If you read my post, you'd clearly see that I don't believe every local firm does this: "...I mean both western companies and local companies like Reliance/Infosys..."

My belief, based on my experiences living here, is that this is far more common than in the US, Canada or UK. Admittedly, my experiences are biased - I spend most of my time in bigger cities, and in IT circles. So if you want to claim that your experience disagrees, all we have is our own dueling personal experiences (unless you know where to get data on this). Do you claim I'm wrong on this point?

'Managing by output' isn't really a copyright of the West...

Using the term "western" brought up unnecessary emotional baggage and was not strictly correct. I should have used a different term, perhaps "modern" or "MNC-style" (I think economists have a precise term for it, but I forget what it is).

I have no idea what the relevance of mortgage underwriting standards is, but I think you might be arguing against some claims that I didn't make. I'm not asserting some sort of vague cultural/moral/racial superiority.

I'm claiming that certain modern business practices are not widely used here, but are common in the west[1]. And I'm claiming India will be a better (i.e. richer, happier) place when it adopts them more widely. This is no different than coming up with a list of plumbing devices and saying that they will benefit India's water supply when they are more commonly used. The only difference between business practices and plumbing devices is that business is a bit more abstract - as a result, I didn't even recognize it until someone carefully explained it to me after the fact.

[1] And I've stated elsewhere that they are not as common as they should be, even in the west. For all Michael O. Church likes to rant about it, VC-istan is a lot better than many other parts of the US.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#125
Even though voluntourist may not be the most useful addition to a team, I imagine the money that is spent to travel and spend time in the volunteer country also helps the local economy a great deal. An unintended benefit but nevertheless helpful.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#127
I am good at raising money, training volunteers, collecting items, coordinating programs, and telling stories. I am flexible, creative, and able to think on my feet. On paper I am, by most people's standards, highly qualified to do international aid.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't think it immediately follows the author is "highly qualified to do international aid" at all from that description alone. Shouldn't one require a profession of some sorts to be "highly qualified" in anything, perhaps? I would assume she is college educated: shouldn't a university education have qualified her as a professional in some field already?

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#128
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use your imagination? Someone wants to help, goes to A, someone else there will be paying attention to how that person is behaving, how effective or ineffective etc. Call it simply human behavior or scouting or what not. For most of the visitors that's it, they'll be thanked at the end and feel good, but some might get a call or an email at some point to ask of they want to be more involved with B.

So basically, you're saying that these trips are tech company interviews?

More like a weed out class in college. It gets the volunteer some exposure to X and gets rid of the ones who aren't going to be worth more time and effort.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#129
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using kiva.org and have deposited $9,000 over couple of years. With auto-relend option my account circulated currently $58,325 through 2,268 loans (individuals or groups) in 61 countries. http://www.kiva.org/lender/kizaemon For auto-relend I chose all countries except US, both genders. The sectors are Agriculture, Clothing, Education, Food, Health, Manufacturing, Retail. Have not chosen sectors Arts, Construction…

FYI, kiva is a scam (in as much as the company is incompetent) that primarily props up predatory lenders in other countries

Previous HN discussion on the matter

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7214353

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am certainly less snarky about kids going to do unskilled construction labor. Most middle-class Americans could find a neighborhood within 15-minutes drive that could really use their help. But "my adventures in East Palo Alto" just isn't as exciting on a law school application, or a date, as "tales of Eritrea."

> But "my adventures in East Palo Alto" just isn't as exciting on a law school application You're wrong on that one. Talking about volunteering every weekend in East Palo Alto will get you a lot further on a law school application than your essay on a week in Africa. Admissions staff aren't stupid. Strong commitment to local activism is valued much more than paying large sums of money to travel halfway around the wor…

I agree with this comment.

While I have no idea about Law School applications and what will help you getting in, I do know that as the leader of the volunteering club in high school and spending four years helping in the community was a lot more interesting in college interviews than other things I had on there.

However the opportunity I took in college to go to Africa (North Western Zambia) to build a data entry system and the back end database to digitalize the records of a hospital tended to get a lot more attention when looking for jobs than any of my more relevant internships did.

When I read these articles like the main link I feel happier about what I did. I finished pretty quickly and then spent time training but the majority of the time after the database was built was doing whatever else was needed but my inability to do a lot of the things well they seemed to tolerate with such kindness since what I was good at was already completed.

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