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Neovim

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Re: Neovim

#321

Post by graywh »

dagi3d wrote: post #105
cicero wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything shameful about using old software if it works well and suits your needs. Yes, new editors like SublimeText have advantages, and if you prefer them over Vim, use them. However, I've seen many projects undergo a rewrite in order to move to new technology, but they never matched the utility of the old technology they were trying to replace. I'm not saying it can't happen, but that it often doesn't.…

>I don't use Vim much now because I work a lot in Windows, and Vim got me into the habit of hitting escape when I was through entering text, but escape cancels the input in a lot of programs. However, I still use it in the shell or when I need to make certain global edits. some people discourage the use of the Esc key and prefer to use Ctrl-c instead. I'd recommend to disable it and force to use the Ctrl-c combo. I d…

Use ctrl-c only if you never want to be able to use a count with an insert command, e.g. 10a= .

Re: Neovim

#322

Post by lsiebert »

I think there are features (which the ability to embed a vim engine may enable) that would make it easier to improve one's usage of vim.

Real time analysis of actions, with suggestions for better ways to do what you just did. Long term analysis of actions, to see what are the biggest time wasters (ie, you often do a certain command that requires typing, maybe it might be better to make a function mapped to a leader based command. Or you tend to copy things with a range that you could have copied using a text object.

And that is what interests me about this. I really hope that separating GUI from the core and the exposure of streams will allow you to put an analysis engine between streams.

Re: Neovim

#323

Post by flyrain »

skrebbel wrote: post #266
markdennehy wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You run latex twice only on really large and complex documents like books, and if you're writing books (not editing, see antipope.org for details) in Word, then you need professional help. 2) Markdown and LaTeX are designed for different tasks. Next you'll be telling me that if you have a leafblower, you have no need for a chainsaw. 3) Find me the structured and annotated data streams first - and show me that the…

You're completely missing the GP's point. Whether or not LaTeX is better than MS Word for task X is besides the point. It's that LaTeX has many obvious opportunities for improvement, ways to drag it into the current age, while keeping all its fundamental strengths. As do many similarly old tools such as Bash, terminal emulators and Vim. These improvements aren't all that difficult to imagine, but they don't happen, b…

Agree. Texmacs is a good idea. Unfortunately it don't attract much attention, it is still not very mature as Vim or Emacs. I hope the community could pay attention to Texmacs.

Re: Neovim

#324

Post by jodrellblank »

im3w1l wrote: post #173
tinco wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't work fine. LateX is slow, inconsistent and needs to be ran multiple times to give a correct result, it has no API, is not extendable in a sane way, it's source code is so arcane there's books written about it, and if you've read the books the only thing you've learned is that trying to reimplement LateX is a fool's errand. And it's syntax is ugly. Markdown is better. Microsoft Word is better. They just…

The by far easiest way to write formulae I've come across is pen and paper. I could imagine a drawing tablet interface with good computer vision algorithms could be nice.

Surface Pro has a digitizer and pen, Windows has math-writing recognition from pen input:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ph/windows7/use-math-input-p...

OneNote has "insert Ink Equation" (I don't know if it uses the same engine, or has its own).

Re: Neovim

#325

Post by ggreer »

rquirk wrote: post #290
ggreer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, the NeoVim will be much more responsive. Vim's current plugin architecture is simple: when plugin code is running, the UI is blocked. If your plugin has an infinite loop, Vim hangs forever. If your plugin does network I/O, Vim hangs until the socket read/write is finished. The only work-around is to use non-blocking sockets and abuse CursorHold/CursorHoldI autocommands and updatetime. That trick breaks t…

The regex engine was updated in version 7.4 and now is noticeably faster.

There's plenty of room for improvement. For example: if you run the same regex many times in a row, Vim rebuilds the DFA on each run. A cache of recently-used DFAs would avoid tons of wasted computation. Also, Vim doesn't free many regex-related data structures until you close the buffer they were invoked on. I had to work-around that bug when writing a plugin, since it caused Vim to use gigabytes of memory.

The best solution would probably be to switch to PCRE. Some Vim-specific stuff[1] would have to be special-cased, but Vim could get an order of magnitude speedup (and fix quite a few bugs) by using a modern, optimized, well-tested regex library.

1. Vim abuses regexes like nothing I've ever seen. You can even match line and column numbers with the regex engine: http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/pattern.html#/\%l

Re: Neovim

#326

Post by jessah »

jojoo wrote: post #249
jbranchaud wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing a thesis using only markdown sounds extremely painful. Are you going to create all your figures elsewhere and then include them as images? How are you going to create your list of figures? And your table of contents? How are you going to create, maintain, and organize your list of references? I could go on.

Writing my thesis with markdown was one of the best decisions i made. I wrote 99% of my master thesis in markdown (50 pages w/o interviews). 1) I didn't have a lot of images so i just wrote FIXME: Image Foo.png where they belonged. 2) I wrote my Citations Plain in there (e.g. Wocken, 1985, 7 ff.), using a special folder for all sources i really used in Mendeley. 3) Writing in markdown i could just c&p perfectly forma…

How do you get pagination with markdown? I would like to switch to markdown instead of using latex, because my needs are simple. But how can I convert markdown into something with support for pagination?

Re: Neovim

#327

Post by segphault »

keithpeter wrote: post #86
segphault wrote: post #16

As someone who uses Vim to write articles and documentation in addition to code, I'd really love to see a richer UI with proper support for features like variable-width fonts. It looks like the developer behind this refactoring effort has some really good ideas for decoupling the Vim engine from the user interface layer. It'd be great if somebody could build a really good cross-platform Qt-based UI on top.

"I'd really love to see a richer UI with proper support for features like variable-width fonts." Would the variable-width fonts be simply for display with plain text being edited and buffered, or do you wish to be able to have rich text formatting within the editor (e.g. italic, bold, smart quote marks &c)? Just interested: rich text formatting has been suggested for emacs I recollect.

For display purposes, yes. I want better text readability when I'm working on an article. A nice variable-width font, more line spacing, etc. I want my Vim buffer to look as good and be as comfortable to read as a native text editor like Byword.

For formatting, I mostly use Markdown. Ideally, I'd like to see the literal markdown for the paragraph under the cursor, but formatted text for the rest of the buffer. There's actually a script with a pretty good first pass at achieving that kind of Markdown support via Vim's "conceal" feature, but some of Vim's inherent limitations make it imperfect: https://github.com/tpope/vim-markdown/pull/9

I'm hoping that the way neovim decouples the UI layer from the underlying editing engine will make it easier to address issues of that nature.

Re: Neovim

#328

Post by terminus »

jrk wrote: post #317
terminus wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We as developers in the Open Source community should be ashamed people are still using Vim to write LaTeX in Bash running on terminal emulators. (Yes, it gives me shivers just thinking about how much each of those technologies sucks when you think about how good it all could be.) Let's deconstruct each of the pieces we are supposed to be ashamed about, shall we. LaTeX the language: a wrapper language built on top o…

(My post got long, so I've put a standalone version, with better markup rendering, here: http://gist.io/9161898. ) [TikZ] is a perfect example of TeX's missed potential: it is an outstandingly well designed DSL for diagram creation, embedded in an insane macro language. The moment you try to do anything nontrivial that exploits the programmatic (rather than purely declarative) nature of TikZ you immediately run into…

Thanks for that extremely insightful analysis. Haven't looked at pandoc before but will do.

Re: Neovim

#329

Post by Foxboron »

haberman wrote: post #167
Foxboron wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting a little ahead of ourselfs maybe? "Nobody knows", lets just compare IRC. #javascript on freenode got 951 users. #clojure on freenode got 651 users. Even tho its not a good comparison, saying "nobody" knows clojure is very far fetched. It has a ever growing community, with several books published, and the whole point on Chris choosing Clojure shows enough of its maturity.

Search Amazon.com books: ClojureScript: 10 results (only one of these actually has ClojureScript in the title) Clojure: 89 results JavaScript: 5,787 results Sorry, there is no comparison. I'm not saying Clojure sucks, I am just saying that it's not mainstream. ClojureScript even less so -- it's an offshoot of Clojure which was designed around the JVM, not browsers.

"I'm not saying Clojure sucks, I am just saying that it's not mainstream.", to be frank, thats not what you said; "... ClojureScript, a LISP-like language that nobody knows.".

Saying its not mainstream is no problem, but it tells you nothing about the quality of the language. What i do find problematic is that you are changing your argumentation from one comment too another. Clojure is a lang several people know, judgeing by books is a poor comparison as we can limit too the past year and compare and the difference would not be as stark, as you try to present it. Clojure also got 80 (?) books published in less then 2-3 years since its its rather quick breakthrough. There is no need to even try and claim "nobody" knows clojure, or "it's not mainstream".

Re: Neovim

#330

Post by teacup50 »

ggreer wrote: post #74
bronson wrote: post #4

It sounds like they have no interest in getting this stuff pushed back upstream? There's no mention of it on the home page. At this point it smells kind of Emacs/XEmacsish. Hope they can rally immense development effort.

The author of NeoVim (Thiago de Arruda) tried to add support for multi-threaded plugins to Vim and has been stymied[1]. I'm not sure how to get a patch merged into Vim. Bram Moolenar is the only person with commit access, and he's not a fan of most changes beyond bug fixes. My co-founder and I tried to add setTimeout & setInterval to vimscript[2]. Even six weeks of full-time effort and bending over backwards wasn't e…

Your patches were broken. Now your answer is to fork? Sheesh.

> The project is definitely showing its age, and I'd love for something new to replace it.

Then start over. Refactoring it will be nigh impossible.

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