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Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

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Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#151

Post by yogo »

eitally wrote: post #135
yogo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are imported because there is a big difference between a nurse and an RN. I couldn't think of a similar distinction in the tech industry. Also I'd also venture to say that RNs are paid very well all across the US.

No, actually not. You can't call yourself a nurse unless you've actually been licensed as a nurse (Registered Nurse). The sub-RNs are CNAs (Certified Nurse Assistants) and LPNs (Licensed Practical Nurses). The step above RN is NP (Nurse Practitioner, which is roughly the equivalent of a general practitioner MD and a small step above PA (Physician's Assistant, which can do all the stuff a GP/MD can do except write pre…

Yea, TheCoelacanth hit the nail on the head. I was referring to a nurse practitioner.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#152

Post by sjg007 »

lotsofmangos wrote: post #65
sjg007 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get into dental or medical school and you are set.

Right, I'm in. There was an open transom. It's dark though and there's nobody about, what do I do now?

eat a mango?

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#153

Post by marquis »

auctiontheory wrote: post #144
marquis wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could I take your comment to mean that men are not teachers because of the low pay-scale? It's a valid point and certainly one we would all like addressed.

It is certainly one reason that keeps men (and many highly-qualified women) from being teachers. Someone made the point long before I did that while we are grateful that women have so many more professional possibilities, it does mean a loss of many of the best women for the traditionally-female professions of nursing, "librarian-ing" and above all teaching. Just as engineering and science and medicine lose STEM mind…

>a loss of many of the best women for the traditionally-female professions

I'd really disagree with that. It means the best women are heads of those departments, not that they are lost from the profession.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#154

Post by pbhjpbhj »

DanBC wrote: post #68
geebee wrote: post #18

I recently read the "top jobs" on the us news and world report website. http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-b... Computer jobs were well represented, but so were health sciences. Here's the full list 1. software developer - san jose - 116K (93k natl avg) 2. computer systems analyst - (couldn’t find it in SF, best anywhere was $116k in bridgeport, 84k nation avg) 3. dentist - couldn’t find SF, c…

> We need to consider, seriously, the possibility that avoidance of high tech in favor of health fields is a very rational choice [...] It's great if people are making a rational. Onsidered choice. I'd love to see research. I suspect that people are not making that informed choice and that segregation along sex happens much much earlier. And if being an RN is so good why are so many nurses imported from other nations…

OT, aside:

Not sure what relevance your anecdote has to the topic, however ...

>he said "no Dan, pink is a girl's colour." //

I found for my sons that the girls in their nursery were very strong policers of colour and toys ("you can't play with that it's for girls" or "pink is for girls"); all the teaching staff are women, most parents/carers/guardians present at pick-up are women .. I corrected the kids [I'm like that, "anyone can have pink things, I've got a pink shirt", usual response giggling] but never heard anyone else do so.

Got to admit to feeling self-conscious carrying one son's pink love-heart handbag around after dropping him off though. It's really not my style.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#155

Post by wutbrodo »

theautocrat wrote: post #98
wutbrodo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For students without some previous experiences, CS61A as an introduction can be brutally discouraging. CS61A hasn't been the intro course for inexperienced students for as long as I can remember: What about CS3? I came into CS having never touched or seen a piece of code, and I took CS3 because my understanding was that it was supposed to be the gentle introduction for complete neophytes. I found CS3 to be enormous…

CS3 was self paced and saw a high rate of failure. CS10 has been the replacement since Fall 2010 and has a continuation rate of over 75 percent. It also opened the scope to instill a CS consciousness in even those who only ever take CS10.

CS3 had a high failure rate?? Do you have a ballpark sense of what it was? I could understand it if 61A had a high failure rate, but I thought CS3 was the way to weed yourself out of CS without taking a hit to your GPA (i.e., realizing that you weren't able to do CS while still being able to do decently in the course, instead of taking 61A and having it be so hard that you failed).

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#156

Post by wutbrodo »

praxulus wrote: post #107
wutbrodo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years back, the optional intro course was CS3 (though I don't think it was meant for non-majors). Has CS10 just replaced CS3, or does CS3 still exist and CS10 is something separate? EDIT: Never mind, I looked it up, which I should have done in the first place. CS3 is the optional intro CS/programming class ("Intro to Symbolic Programming"), and CS10 is "The Beauty and Joy of Computing", which seems designed for…

CS3 isn't offered anymore. CS10 is the replacement, but it also goes for broader appeal than just being prep for 61a.

It looks CS3 is still in the course catalog (http://general-catalog.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_re...)

Whoops never mind, I just saw the response to my other comment saying that the course catalog is out of date. Never mind then.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#157

Post by wutbrodo »

sqrt wrote: post #113
wutbrodo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Into to Symbolic Programming hasn't been replaced. http://general-catalog.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_re... Compare the descriptions for CS3L (Intro to Symbolic Programming) to CS10. They both still exist and seem very different.

CS3L hasn't been offered for the last couple of years. The catalog includes classes that haven't been offered for a long time.

Oh...weird

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#158

Post by pbhjpbhj »

saraid216 wrote: post #70
cobrausn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you actually determine what is 'over-represented' and not just the result of individual agency en masse?

Individual agency en masse should be a random distribution, which results in a proportionate representation within reasonable error margins. Not having this suggests that there's another factor besides individual agency factoring into decisions. It could be something acceptable, like men can't biologically give birth (yet), or it could be something unacceptable, like blacks being targeted by police solely on suspicio…

>Individual agency en masse should be a random distribution //

Would you like a) a beer, b) a hot chocolate ...

Hmm, I'm sure it'll be a random distribution with equal weighting of men and women.

Is it really that weird that lawyers predominant in a legislative field? It seems like it would be the least weird tendency - like if street cleaners, dental hygenists or pop-stars were predominant that would be weird.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#159

Post by pbhjpbhj »

altero wrote: post #89

Mission completed! Now we can stop that positive discrimination nonsense.

Surely logically - if you support discrimination [in favour of minority groups based on irrelevant characteristics (like skin colour relative to computer programming)] - you have to switch to supporting the same for the group that is now in minority [within this very limited geo-political locus].

Coming soon to HN ..., boys only code classes, special boys only STEM days, toys designed to interest boys in STEM, books with male characters doing computer-y stuff, etc..

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#160

Post by auctiontheory »

marquis wrote: post #153
auctiontheory wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is certainly one reason that keeps men (and many highly-qualified women) from being teachers. Someone made the point long before I did that while we are grateful that women have so many more professional possibilities, it does mean a loss of many of the best women for the traditionally-female professions of nursing, "librarian-ing" and above all teaching. Just as engineering and science and medicine lose STEM mind…

>a loss of many of the best women for the traditionally-female professions I'd really disagree with that. It means the best women are heads of those departments, not that they are lost from the profession.

A woman who becomes a doctor or lawyer or banker (because nowadays she can) is a woman who is not a nurse, librarian, or K-12 teacher.
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