Live data from Hacker News

Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

techcrunch.com

101–110 of 176 posts

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#101

I've started flagging these stories. It doesn't matter how many men or women work in particular careers. Technology is only singled out because the pay is high. Where are the articles about the lack of women in welding?

On sites other than HN, which has nothing to do with welding?

I'm sure it's very easy to say that gender inequality in the workplace doesn't matter at all when you are not the one affected by it.

see: http://www.aikenstandard.com/article/20130125/aik0101/130129...

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/rosie-the-weld...

http://awo.aws.org/2013/12/women-in-welding-meet-karen-gilge...

http://www.advanced.edu/blog/more-women-entering-the-welding...

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#102

I've started flagging these stories. It doesn't matter how many men or women work in particular careers. Technology is only singled out because the pay is high. Where are the articles about the lack of women in welding?

"Where are the articles about Women in Y" or "where are the articles about men in X" is a common comment in these threads. Those articles are written, and linked to in those threads. They're not posted to HN because they're not of interest to HN which has few welders or nurses but many coders.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A basic understanding of math, mostly.

Shit, I guess I must have been sick the day we covered "men and women are statistically identical in all choices they make". Was that in calculus?

Why would they be statistically identical? I'm pretty sure I gave a specific example of how this wasn't true. Did you miss English class in addition to math class?

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#104
post #13
post #3

... and they all promptly changed their majors when they found out forgetting a semi-colon made their programs not compile.

It's not that ridiculous, I think public static void main () scared off about 25% of the students who took introduction to computer programming (java) at UBC. Hopefully the author is not implying that women would be more easily put off by that kind of thing than men (it could well be true or even the other way around, but without hard data to back it up, that's just sexist nonsense.)

I was just saying that introductory classes have little to do with who actually stays in the program. Give it 6 years and see who actually decides to graduate with the major!

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#105
post #18

I recently read the "top jobs" on the us news and world report website. http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-b... Computer jobs were well represented, but so were health sciences. Here's the full list 1. software developer - san jose - 116K (93k natl avg) 2. computer systems analyst - (couldn’t find it in SF, best anywhere was $116k in bridgeport, 84k nation avg) 3. dentist - couldn’t find SF, c…

I am a current UCSF medical student and I majored in statistics in undergrad. I program in R and python. In undergrad, did consider doing an internship at a tech company as a data scientist, so I feel like I understand the perspective from both sides. That said, I feel this is entirely a false dichotomy - there are actually very few people choosing between nursing and computer science, and it is not "diverting some o…

I would like to address the false dichotomy you have indicated - that it doesn't make sense to talk of people being diverted from software development into health care fields. There are a couple of essays I'd suggest. Neither are about programming or women - they're about science/engineering graduate programs and Americans. However, they both reach the conclusion that Americans in general are rationally avoiding graduate degrees in STEM fields.

The first is a study by the RAND institute:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP241.html

This study concludes that Americans are avoiding STEM degrees in large part because the pay and job prospects compared to the "professions" including law or medicine have become so uncompetitive.

Another is by professor William Zumeta at the University of Washington. He looks into students with strong quantitative backgrounds to analyze why they are not going into science and engineering. He does conclude that they are often going to MBA or Health Sciences. (He also does address some systemic problems that particularly affect women in these fields).

http://www.issues.org/19.2/p_zumeta.htm

Unfortunately, these researchers don't really address the false dichotomy you've brought up - they seem to assume that academically talented students do choose between very different fields based on pay and career prospects. Perhaps that is, as you've suggested, a deeply flawed assumption.

Believe it or not, I actually think that this in no way invalidates claims that outright discrimination or socialization from an early age is a factor! After all, even if it is a relatively poor career choice (already a very debatable claim), these can still be substantial (even definitive) factors!

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shit, I guess I must have been sick the day we covered "men and women are statistically identical in all choices they make". Was that in calculus?

Why would they be statistically identical? I'm pretty sure I gave a specific example of how this wasn't true. Did you miss English class in addition to math class?

You explicitly stated that any variation from a random distribution must be due to factors other than individual agency. But of course, you know that. How does someone whose posting history is almost entirely blatant trolling like that not manage to get banned more frequently?

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#107
post #5

This is talking about CS10, not CS61a. CS10 is a class designed mostly for non majors, who are interested in Computer Science; CS61a is the first required class for the major. I know of a bunch of CS guys with their girlfriends in CS10. A lot of people who are already set on taking CS as their major go directly into CS61a, skipping CS10, and this accounts for a lot of the gender ratio difference in CS10. If you look…

A few years back, the optional intro course was CS3 (though I don't think it was meant for non-majors). Has CS10 just replaced CS3, or does CS3 still exist and CS10 is something separate? EDIT: Never mind, I looked it up, which I should have done in the first place. CS3 is the optional intro CS/programming class ("Intro to Symbolic Programming"), and CS10 is "The Beauty and Joy of Computing", which seems designed for…

CS3 isn't offered anymore. CS10 is the replacement, but it also goes for broader appeal than just being prep for 61a.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#109

Not 2 years ago, it was at least 90% male. Although towards the end of the term, it trended towards a balance. ----- On review, the article is NOT about what you'd consider CS1 "Introduction to Symbolic Programming was reborn as Beauty and the Joy of Computing." This is a CS class in the loosest sense of the word. It fulfills no prerequisites towards a CS degree. OTOH I could just be cynical, and this class is just w…

Into to Symbolic Programming hasn't been replaced. http://general-catalog.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_re... Compare the descriptions for CS3L (Intro to Symbolic Programming) to CS10. They both still exist and seem very different.

It's in the catalog, but CS3 doesn't show up on schedule.berkeley.edu for last semester or this one.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#110
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to speak for the paulwithap, but it seems we're talking about the disproportionate amount of effort to get men into in careers where women are over-representing compared to the other way around. And also the disproportionate amount of criticism we give to members in that field when they don't. I'm all for anyone doing what ever job they feel like doing as long as they have the skills to do it. I don't ev…

My uncle lost his job recently as a factory worker and is retraining at the age of 50 to be an nurse aide. He wishes he'd trained as nurse but 30 years ago it was near impossible. Not every man wants to be a brain surgeon. And teachers? That has to be the MOST important group where we should absolutely have equal representation.

> And teachers? That has to be the MOST important group where we should absolutely have equal representation.

I would mostly agree with that. A lot of people probably would. But we don't see a huge number of "guys who teach" or "black guys teach" type programs popping up all over. We don't see article after article full of disdain for the "girls club" that is teaching. It is not just a gender thing. We don't see many "girls who drive trucks" programs either. I think it is some what of a phenomenon having such a large push to specifically get women into coding specifically. It just seems quite disproportionate. I'd like to see more push from other "one gender dominated" fields. [EDIT] Maybe there is and I just don't see it since I'm not in one of those other fields.

Sounds like your uncle is finally realizing a desire he's had for many years. Best of luck to him.

Post reply on HN