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AI

blog.samaltman.com

291–300 of 317 posts

Re: AI

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, I don't know what the goal of an AI will be. But if it does anything at all, it's more likely to be indifferent to humans than compatible with our goals. An AI programmed to solve a difficult optimization problem might convert the entire mass of the solar system into a giant computer. An AI programmed for self-preservation would try to destroy every tiny possible threat to it's existence, and store as mu…

" An AI programmed to solve a difficult optimization problem might convert the entire mass of the solar system into a giant computer. " ha :) i love this. my initial reaction was again- this is a huge assumption. that is, you're assuming self-preservation would be a goal, before sustaining human life. but then i realized, i guess this is your point! regardless of what goals we intend to program for, their solutions a…

>if it's going to happen it's going to happen and i'd prefer it be while i can experience it.

It'd certainly be fascinating. But I think I would rather that humanity does whatever it can do ensure that any artificial intelligence we create won't cause an outcome that is bad for humanity.

Re: AI

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what is a problem that specifically requires intelligence to solve? How do we know we're measuring intelligence, and not the programs aptitude for the particular problem?

Why does it matter? If if solves the problem then it's as good as if it was fully intelligent. Who cares what goes on inside the black box? If you worried about it overfitting to a specific problem, give it lots of problems and weight the solutions by complexity. So you heavily favor simple algorithms that can learn to solve a large class of problems, over ones that are more adapted for those specific problems.

"Who cares what goes on inside the black box?"

That's the most interesting and informative issue presented by this scenario.

The problem with the sort of test you propose is that just because a human uses intelligence to solve a problem, it does not follow that the task requires intelligence. For example, playing chess.

From an engineering point of view, your black box may be as good as the real thing, though you couldn't really trust it beyond the areas of its demonstrated competence. Knowing how it works, however, would be the most significant achievement.

Furthermore, it's going to be hard to build one of these black boxes without a reasonably good idea of how it is going to work.

There is also the risk that your weighting scheme will rule out the only algorithms that have a chance of succeeding, because I bet they are pretty complex.

Re: AI

#293
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that argument, there is no moral argument against inflicting pain on others, because the pain of another is not something we can empirically observe, except by analogy of how we react to the pain we ourselves experience.

First, the moral argument against inflicting pain on others doesn't depend on existence of pain. The moral dilemma is: is it acceptable to inflict pain on others or not. This is different, and to a large extend independent, from the question if pain exists in experience of others. In other words, if pain exists in others, it doesn't follow that you have to , by mere logical reasoning, make a moral conclusion that inf…

> Of course, now you may say "ah, but how can we know that these empirical manifestations mean the person is experiencing the sensation of pain". Scientifically that dilemma makes little sense, it's simply unproductive, it's scientifically useless.

Sure, it's scientifically impossible to evaluate. From a purely scientific perspective pain is just electricity. How would you convince an intelligent being that could not feel pain that it exists at all?

The existence of pain falls outside the boundaries of scientific inquiry, I agree. But are you saying that it therefore doesn't exist? Because your earlier argument seems to be that we can explain the mystery of consciousness within a scientific framework, and that is the larger point I disagree with.

Re: AI

#294
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define intelligence?

Optimization power, possibly divided by available resources. In a game of Chess, only a narrow set of moves will let me steer the future into a winning state. Well, the same is true for the Game of Life (the real one, not Conway's): we humans are intelligent because we're able to steer the future through probability to a-priori incredibly unlikely outcomes. Compare walking vs moving your limbs randomly.

It was a rhetorical question. The point was once you have a definition of intelligence - yours is one of many fine definitions - you can refine that into a metric for comparing different intelligences, and then you have a way for a comparison function given two program descriptions to determine which is "more intelligent".

Building artificial intelligence then reduces to undirected search, assuming infinite CPU and RAM.

Re: AI

#295
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, the moral argument against inflicting pain on others doesn't depend on existence of pain. The moral dilemma is: is it acceptable to inflict pain on others or not. This is different, and to a large extend independent, from the question if pain exists in experience of others. In other words, if pain exists in others, it doesn't follow that you have to , by mere logical reasoning, make a moral conclusion that inf…

> Of course, now you may say "ah, but how can we know that these empirical manifestations mean the person is experiencing the sensation of pain". Scientifically that dilemma makes little sense, it's simply unproductive, it's scientifically useless. Sure, it's scientifically impossible to evaluate. From a purely scientific perspective pain is just electricity. How would you convince an intelligent being that could not…

> How would you convince an intelligent being that could not feel pain that it exists at all?

Assuming the being is "reasonable" (in this context it would mean it's willing to accept that there exist concepts that it may not understand or directly experience, and is willing to trust us), we could just point out the chemical and electrical phenomena correlated with pain and say that it's something that causes a certain kind of feeling of discomfort. We would get in trouble if this being also can not feel general discomfort, but you're probably bound to hit a wall in understanding at some point anyway when communicating with an entity whose experiencing capabilities are wildly different from ours.

> The existence of pain falls outside the boundaries of scientific inquiry, I agree. But are you saying that it therefore doesn't exist?

Actually, my point about pain was that it does exist, precisely because it can be examined and explained within a scientific framework. If we couldn't do that, then we could say that for all practical purposes, as far as science is concerned, "pain doesn't exist".

The same is true for consciousness. What's difficult about it is that it's not a thing, there's no hormone for consciousness, there's no brain centre where it's localized, rather it's a process and a product both phylogenic and ontogenic so it's a lot harder to capture it and identify it, to put it "under the microscope". It's not some secret sauce to intelligence, it's a consequence of intelligence. And the most important part of the process is the dynamics of language acquisition (at least when we're speaking of conscious experience in Homo sapiens).

I could go into the details but I'm afraid my posts would explode in length. ATM I don't have time to dig for good online material on this, and I'm under the impression that the theory in time got derailed into developing some practical aspects concerning child cognitive development, verbal learning etc, and away from the hard meaty implications we're discussing here, so I'm reluctant to even attempt to go into that rabbit hole. But they're explicitly there (the books I mentioned discuss the issue at length). Interestingly, about 10 years ago I was doing some work on word-meaning and symbol grounding development and I was both glad and frustrated to see literature on computer modelling in this area full of operationally defined concepts from the theory but people were seemingly unaware that this work has already been treated in depth on the theoretical level because there were no references to it then, I'm not sure if anything has changed, I've since moved on to other things. For example, the Talking Heads model[1][2]. It's not about consciousness per se, and although the authors never reference the socio-cultural theory of cognitive development (a horrible name in this day and age, it tends to evoke associations to post-modern dribble, but nothing could be further from the truth), it can give you a good idea of some aspects of the dynamics explored in the theory because what is happening in the TH model is exactly what the S-C theory describes is happening externally during language acquisition (in broader strokes though).

As for the philosophical zombie problem, I'd like to retract what I said about it being nonsense. Actually, it's very useful in showing why worrying about subjective sensation of consciousness is completely useless in AI and is very much like asking how many angels can dance on a tip of a needle. On a very related note I'd add: people are severely underestimating the significance of the Turing test.

[1] http://staff.science.uva.nl/~gideon/Steels_Tutorial_PART2.pd...

[2] http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=talking+heads+expe...

Re: AI

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it change it's own goals? That would violate it's current goals, and therefore try to avoid that action. Can you change yourself to be a sociopath? Would you? Would you make yourself a perfect nihilist?

i think an intelligent system would be able to think critically, think ethically, and re-evaluate it's beliefs. what kind of intelligence wouldn't question it's own understanding?

Intelligence means that it can figure out how to fulfill it's goal as optimally as possible. It doesn't mean that it can magically change it's goals to something that is compatible with human goals. Why would it? Human goals are extremely arbitrary.

Re: AI

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, I don't know what the goal of an AI will be. But if it does anything at all, it's more likely to be indifferent to humans than compatible with our goals. An AI programmed to solve a difficult optimization problem might convert the entire mass of the solar system into a giant computer. An AI programmed for self-preservation would try to destroy every tiny possible threat to it's existence, and store as mu…

" An AI programmed to solve a difficult optimization problem might convert the entire mass of the solar system into a giant computer. " ha :) i love this. my initial reaction was again- this is a huge assumption. that is, you're assuming self-preservation would be a goal, before sustaining human life. but then i realized, i guess this is your point! regardless of what goals we intend to program for, their solutions a…

>i welcome robot catastrophe too. if it's going to happen it's going to happen and i'd prefer it be while i can experience it.

I'd rather it turn out friendly than unfriendly, and I'd rather have as much time as possible to either figure it out or live out my life.

There'd be nothing to experience anyways. The AI might kill us all overnight with super-lethal virus, nukes, or swarms of nanobots.

Re: AI

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Just pick your favorite AI problem and see how well it does on that. Pick a bunch of AI problems and see how well it does on all of them. Weight the algorithms by simplicity if you are worried about it over-fitting.

With this hypothetical infinite speed computer you will get solutions that are perfect matches for your test cases but essentially random for all other inputs.

As I said, weight by simplicity, forcing the algorithm to be as general as possible.

Re: AI

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think an intelligent system would be able to think critically, think ethically, and re-evaluate it's beliefs. what kind of intelligence wouldn't question it's own understanding?

Thank you! I was going to write something similar. I think a real 'superior' AI must be able to follow all the various philosophical ideas we had and 'understand' them at a deeper level than we do. Things such as 'there is no purpose'/nihilism, extreme critical thinking about itself etc. If it doesn't, if it can't, it can't be superior to us by definition. I think, given these philosophical ideas, we anthropomorphize…

>Thank you! I was going to write something similar. I think a real 'superior' AI must be able to follow all the various philosophical ideas we had and 'understand' them at a deeper level than we do. Things such as 'there is no purpose'/nihilism, extreme critical thinking about itself etc. If it doesn't, if it can't, it can't be superior to us by definition.

Understanding is not the same as accepting as your utility function. Morality is specific to humans. A different being would have different goals and different morality (if any.) It's very likely they would be compatible with humans.

Re: AI

#300
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, now you may say "ah, but how can we know that these empirical manifestations mean the person is experiencing the sensation of pain". Scientifically that dilemma makes little sense, it's simply unproductive, it's scientifically useless. Sure, it's scientifically impossible to evaluate. From a purely scientific perspective pain is just electricity. How would you convince an intelligent being that could not…

> How would you convince an intelligent being that could not feel pain that it exists at all? Assuming the being is "reasonable" (in this context it would mean it's willing to accept that there exist concepts that it may not understand or directly experience, and is willing to trust us), we could just point out the chemical and electrical phenomena correlated with pain and say that it's something that causes a certai…

> Actually, my point about pain was that it does exist, precisely because it can be examined and explained within a scientific framework.

The physical processes of pain (ie. the electricity) can be observed scientifically, but the "sensation" of pain (to use your word from before) cannot. But it is the "sensation" of pain that gives it its moral significance, otherwise inflicting pain would be no different morally than flipping on the switch to an electrical circuit.

> The same is true for consciousness. What's difficult about it is that it's not a thing, there's no hormone for consciousness, there's no brain centre where it's localized, rather it's a process and a product both phylogenic and ontogenic

I can only conclude that you mean something different than I do when you say "consciousness." To me the sensation of pain is a subset of consciousness. It's the difference between electricity "falling in the middle of the forest" so to speak and electricity that causes some sentient being to feel discomfort.

> Actually, it's very useful in showing why worrying about subjective sensation of consciousness is completely useless in AI

Sure it's useless to AI. To AI the zombie problem doesn't matter, because the goal is to produce intelligence, not sentience. But it's useful in a conversation about what sentience and consciousness mean.

If we created intelligence that could pass the Turing Test against anybody, it would be basically impossible to know if it experiences sentience in the way that all of us individually know that we do. But that is the essence of the zombie problem. Where does sentience come from? We have no idea.

Actually I take it back; the zombie problem will be extremely useful to AI the moment a computer can pass the Turing Test, because that's when it will matter whether we can "kill" it or not.

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