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Leaving Google

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Re: Leaving Google

#211

Post by potatolicious »

randallsquared wrote: post #191
aridiculous wrote: post #106

I visited Seattle and Vancouver for the first time recently. I was surprised at how similar they were. I was expecting Vancouver to be a lot different than it was. Vancouver was even more high-rise, glass-everything, gated-community than Seattle. I spoke with the locals who informed me that was Vancouver's MO, and if I wanted a culturally interesting Canadian city, I should head over to Toronto.

Is "culturally interesting" code for dirty and run down? ;)

Only in the USA. One of the fundamental differences between Canada and the US is that ethnic diversity and immigration do not immediately imply poverty.

Visit Toronto sometime. Tons of ethnic enclaves that are legitimately interesting, and not in the "look at how the poor people live!" way - solidly middle class and not at all run-down.

In my experience in the US "ethnic enclave", "culturally interesting", "racially vibrant" more often than not really is code for dirty and run down.

Re: Leaving Google

#212

Post by stephencanon »

georgemcbay wrote: post #83
stephencanon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing as California is extraordinarily passive-aggressive (from a New Englander’s perspective), that really says something.

As someone who lived his first 22 years in the metro Boston area but has lived in various parts of California for something like 16 years, I'd argue that it is impossible to paint "California" with such a wide brush. I live in San Diego and it is very different here than in LA or the SF Bay Area (with each of those also being very distinct from each other).

The various parts of CA are, as you say, quite different from one another, but they are all extremely passive-aggressive compared to the North East.

Re: Leaving Google

#213

Post by stephencanon »

kenjackson wrote: post #81
stephencanon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing as California is extraordinarily passive-aggressive (from a New Englander’s perspective), that really says something.

Where aren't people passive aggressive? No where I've ever been.

There are passive-aggressive people everywhere, but it is especially prevalent on the west coast. There’s an old cartoon that sums it up perfectly, comparing New York and LA: the New Yorker is shown to be thinking “I love you, man” but saying “fuck you!”. For the Angelino it's the opposite.

Re: Leaving Google

#214

Post by tptacek »

potatolicious wrote: post #211
randallsquared wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "culturally interesting" code for dirty and run down? ;)

Only in the USA. One of the fundamental differences between Canada and the US is that ethnic diversity and immigration do not immediately imply poverty. Visit Toronto sometime. Tons of ethnic enclaves that are legitimately interesting, and not in the "look at how the poor people live!" way - solidly middle class and not at all run-down. In my experience in the US "ethnic enclave", "culturally interesting", "racially…

There's a reason for that: the legacy of slavery for African Americans, and the massive continuous immigration of low- wage- earning latinos.

Vietnamese and Indian neighborhoods in the US don't tend to be run down. For that matter, there are middle-class black enclaves. They're just not as noticeable as the huge poor black neighborhoods.

Re: Leaving Google

#215

Post by skywhopper »

jjwiseman wrote: post #164
skywhopper wrote: post #104

As someone who works 97% remotely from a mostly-colocated office, I have to agree that it's a terribly inefficient way to work. If everyone were remote, it could probably work, but if it's just one or two out of a dozen or a hundred, it's very difficult. On balance, my current job is still the best choice for me, but there's a constant background of frustration mostly surrounding communication failures.

In my experience, teams or companies that have significant problems communicating with remote workers just aren't very good communicators. Physical proximity is a crutch that can help them overcome their disability/dysfunction, but they almost always still have major communication problems--they just have more problems with remote employees. A team that's good at communicating with remote employees is usually just go…

Oh, I definitely agree. Certainly my employer has plenty of communications problems. But whatever communications roadblocks exist are amplified tenfold from 800 miles away.

Re: Leaving Google

#217

Post by mcantelon »

eevilspock wrote: post #68
haberman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little sad he didn't say anything about Seattle, only a couple hours from Vancouver and with sizable and thriving Google offices. It is also has "greens and greys and unfussily variegated people" -- clearly it's not Canada, but in general it would be a much less drastic transition!

Vancouver is a real city. Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Californians who've moved there almost unanimously agree with my first sentence, and crack up at the latter. (Sadly, I lived in Seattle for 17 years. The Bay Area before that, and New York now.)

>provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated

Vancouver isn't?

Re: Leaving Google

#218

Post by nostrademons »

namelezz wrote: post #162
benched wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle 8 years. Sadly I have to agree wholeheartedly with this, because I've been unable to find much contrary evidence. The 'Freeze', which is deservedly famous, is very, very real, no matter how many people try to minimize its reality. Go ahead, come here - it's on display every second of every day in every cubic meter of the city. The only people who will make eye contact or speak a word to you are the homeless -…

Damn it! I am planning to move to SF, Seattle, or NYC. The OP's story and your story are too sad about SF and Seattle.

I think the only way to find out if you'll be happy in a city is to move there for a while and see if you like it. Cultural affinity is very personal; you'll read all sorts of opinions from everyone on HN, but they won't tell you anything about whether you will like it.

FWIW, I've lived in Boston and Silicon Valley and have a number of family in NYC. I can't stand NYC - it's too busy, no greenery (Central Park doesn't count, it's all man-made), and generally feels like I'm living in a concrete cinderblock. I really liked Boston, but the culture is just a little bit too conservative, and I didn't feel like there were any professional opportunities that didn't involve paying my dues for 30 years while the world moved on around me. Silicon Valley has a wonderful openness to new ideas and a nice "seize the day" mentality, but everybody seems just slightly insecure about how their next-door neighbor just sold a company for $100M, and there's a big unhealthy competitive dynamic behind the surface. SF (& Berkeley) is charming but also has a slightly ridiculous lack of self-awareness - there is a huge population here who really values their quality of life but doesn't realize that their actions are the cause of all the things they complain about. (Witness all the folks who love their iPhones and Uber but hate the techies who make them, who protest rent increases but won't allow new housing construction, who prevent the state from raising taxes and then wonder why California is in perpetual budget crisis, and who hate the Comcast monopoly but won't allow any new fiber lines to be laid.)

On the whole I think Silicon Valley is probably the right place for me, but I still wish I could find a place with the openness to new ideas of Silicon Valley but without the competitiveness and greed.

Re: Leaving Google

#219

Post by nostrademons »

georgemcbay wrote: post #83
stephencanon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing as California is extraordinarily passive-aggressive (from a New Englander’s perspective), that really says something.

As someone who lived his first 22 years in the metro Boston area but has lived in various parts of California for something like 16 years, I'd argue that it is impossible to paint "California" with such a wide brush. I live in San Diego and it is very different here than in LA or the SF Bay Area (with each of those also being very distinct from each other).

SF Bay Area is also too broad a brush - SF is very different from San Jose, and a number of other regions (Peninsula, Mountain View/Palo Alto, Berkeley, Woodside/Saratoga/Atherton/Los Gatos/Los Altos Hills) all have distinct cultures as well. I'd argue that MV/PA is actually closer to Boston culturally than to SF.

Re: Leaving Google

#220

Post by webwright »

eevilspock wrote: post #68
haberman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little sad he didn't say anything about Seattle, only a couple hours from Vancouver and with sizable and thriving Google offices. It is also has "greens and greys and unfussily variegated people" -- clearly it's not Canada, but in general it would be a much less drastic transition!

Vancouver is a real city. Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Californians who've moved there almost unanimously agree with my first sentence, and crack up at the latter. (Sadly, I lived in Seattle for 17 years. The Bay Area before that, and New York now.)

Unfriendly to outsiders? I moved to Seattle from Alaska when I was 32 (I knew no one here and grew up near DC). 7 years later, I'm buried in friends. I play ultimate with a group of awesome folks twice a week, touch football once a week with another group, and bump into all sorts of friendly faces at tech meetups. People seems broadly friendly compared to most cities. I'll agree that folks are less confrontational than the east coast, which translates to more passive aggression (but certainly less OVERALL aggression than east coast cities).

As far as "hick town"... Seattle is literally the most educated city in the US. It legalized gay marriage and pot before almost anyone else. I don't understand what you mean by "hick"... I guess we do have a lot of plaid.

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