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San Francisco Startup ZenPayroll Raises $20M, Finds Novel Ways to Lure Workers

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Re: San Francisco Startup ZenPayroll Raises $20M, Finds Novel Ways to Lure Workers

#61

Post by RogerL »

grinich wrote: post #40
xauronx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How elitist is the hiring process? I'm always really hesitant to apply to places like that. I'm consistently one of the best developers at my job, I'm really good at getting shit done, and have a ton of faith in my ability. However, as soon as I think about applying at a "trendy" start up, I envision someone grilling me for hours to hand write sorting algorithms on a white board. I have no interest in that, and I fee…

This is like complaining that you need to write an application essay to get into college. "But I'm not going to be a writer..." If the company is awesome, just suck it up for a day. Once you join you can try to change the interviewing process. I think the thing most people don't realize is that these traditional "interviewing" techniques (like whiteboard coding) are just what gets you in the door. Your real interview…

I should take a day off work, go get mis-measured and stressed out due to the poor interview style, get hired into a job I cannot do, and get fired because you mis-measured me.

No. Thank you, but no.

Re: San Francisco Startup ZenPayroll Raises $20M, Finds Novel Ways to Lure Workers

#62

Post by RogerL »

tyre wrote: post #36
xauronx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How elitist is the hiring process? I'm always really hesitant to apply to places like that. I'm consistently one of the best developers at my job, I'm really good at getting shit done, and have a ton of faith in my ability. However, as soon as I think about applying at a "trendy" start up, I envision someone grilling me for hours to hand write sorting algorithms on a white board. I have no interest in that, and I fee…

My name is Chris, also an engineer at ZenPayroll. We're not interested in a candidate's ability to write sorting algorithms, because those aren't the kind of problems we're solving. Our technical interviews are working on a problem with an engineer. We care a hell of a lot more about how you think than regurgitating Big O notation. We work in Ruby and CoffeeScript, but we've hired engineers without direct experience…

Do you have any evidence for the claims in The Value of Cultural Interviews? Because, to be honest, I looked at your Careers page and it made my skin crawl. Everyone looked the same, everyone was in the same age demographic, everyone had similar hobbies, you want to be their family (I have a family, thank you, and I work for you to do something interesting and to support my real family).

More to the point (yes, I worry that I'm not being pointed enough ;) ) I have worked with plenty of people that weren't a 'cultural' fit with me, and we did great things. So, I have evidence in direct contradiction of your claims.

Re: San Francisco Startup ZenPayroll Raises $20M, Finds Novel Ways to Lure Workers

#63

Post by Avshalom »

asdfologist wrote: post #58
Jormundir wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reasoning is based on false circumstances. SF has a landlord's market, so they have no reason to shave the price for more business, but they have ample reason to raise the price to extract as much value out of the property.

By your reasoning, every landlord can raise their rent by an infinite amount and maintain at least the same revenue.

have you seen the rent increase graphs; they're in the process.

Re: San Francisco Startup ZenPayroll Raises $20M, Finds Novel Ways to Lure Workers

#64

Post by nerfhammer »

Jormundir wrote: post #41
nerfhammer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming there's more than one landlord they will capture some of the value but not all of it. E.g., they would be incentivized to raise rents $500, but then one of then could get more business by only raising it to $450 letting the employee capture $50 a month, and so on and so forth.

This reasoning is based on false circumstances. SF has a landlord's market, so they have no reason to shave the price for more business, but they have ample reason to raise the price to extract as much value out of the property.

Only if the number of zenpayroll employees willing to live in that neighborhood > number of available apartments in that neighborhood

Re: San Francisco Startup ZenPayroll Raises $20M, Finds Novel Ways to Lure Workers

#65

Post by sjclemmy »

grinich wrote: post #40
xauronx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How elitist is the hiring process? I'm always really hesitant to apply to places like that. I'm consistently one of the best developers at my job, I'm really good at getting shit done, and have a ton of faith in my ability. However, as soon as I think about applying at a "trendy" start up, I envision someone grilling me for hours to hand write sorting algorithms on a white board. I have no interest in that, and I fee…

This is like complaining that you need to write an application essay to get into college. "But I'm not going to be a writer..." If the company is awesome, just suck it up for a day. Once you join you can try to change the interviewing process. I think the thing most people don't realize is that these traditional "interviewing" techniques (like whiteboard coding) are just what gets you in the door. Your real interview…

> Writing sorting algorithms is like tuning a guitar.... I know it's not meant literally but, I play guitar and write code. I couldn't play the guitar without having to tune it, so yeah, I can tune a guitar quickly by ear in order to play it, but I can only remember one instance of writing a sort algorithm - it's just not necessary in some domains.

Re: San Francisco Startup ZenPayroll Raises $20M, Finds Novel Ways to Lure Workers

#67

Post by pchristensen »

paulbaumgart wrote: post #18
admiraltbags wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interviewed with their lead front-end engineer for a front-end engineering position. Everything was great then he asked me for my "story". I answered as best I could but I guess it wasn't what he wanted to hear so he re-iterated that he wanted to know if he would like working with me. I think that's great thing to determine but was put-off by the question-- I got the feeling I would be working with a bit of a tool. H…

"in this type of culture its expected that you earn less" Serious question: is there any other for-profit industry where candidates wouldn't laugh in your face for saying something like this?

Game programming, space exploration, acting, music, movies, sports, anything where demand for employment outstrips demand for employees.

Re: San Francisco Startup ZenPayroll Raises $20M, Finds Novel Ways to Lure Workers

#68

Post by monkeynotes »

robotresearcher wrote: post #48
robotresearcher wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a non-cynical mode: 1) turns your employees into neighbours 2) reduces wasted commute time 3) increases exercise compared to drivers (10 mins is better than nothing (edit: twice a day!)) thus reducing medical costs 4) reduces absenteeism due to dental appointments, kid concerts, etc that tend to be near home. Improves family life. 5) reduces the carbon footprint of the business 6) reduces the car-related absenteei…

Oh boy, I just thought of a really good one: Some parents with young children find it difficult to get time to be alone in private while not exhausted. This can cause awful stress on a relationship. "Lunchtime" with a partner at home can make a big difference. This might not sound like a big deal to the pre-kid people, or those with tons of energy after the kids are in bed, but for some people this is a relationship-…

Lunchtime at home? Better hope you are not on lunch making duty at the office, it's company culture don't you know. You do want to be a team player don't you?

Besides, how reasonable is it to expect to be able to raise a family in downtown SF? Surely if you want space, good schools, and room to grow an extra $500 in downtown rent terms isn't going to make that much of a difference.

Re: San Francisco Startup ZenPayroll Raises $20M, Finds Novel Ways to Lure Workers

#69

Post by ryanSrich »

Xdes wrote: post #6
nathan_f77 wrote: post #4

ZenPayroll is hiring: https://zenpayroll.com/careers I'm a software engineer at ZenPayroll, and it's truly an awesome place to work. The founders and team have taken great care to build an amazing company culture, and I'm really excited to see us grow over the next few years.

The lack of remote opportunities is disappointing.

I really don't know what it's going to take to get some of these startups to give remote working a try. I currently work remotely for a mid-west startup and it's completely changed the way I work, and for the better.

I feel like a have more control over my schedule which in turn gives me a better sense of ownership over what I create.

If you've ever done freelance work it's very similar in that it gives you freedom to create your own schedule while providing a more stable form of income. That's not to say I wouldn't go back to freelancing I'm just enjoying the current situation I'm in.

Re: San Francisco Startup ZenPayroll Raises $20M, Finds Novel Ways to Lure Workers

#70

Post by bradmccarty »

A bit of an outsider's perspective, from someone at a company (FullContact) that does some similar things -

1: Free EcoPass and/or free parking - EcoPass is a pretty killer bus pass that lets you take the express routes and you can even do long trips for a severely discounted price. The airport from downtown, for instance, runs $11. With EcoPass it's $2.50. We've found that many people would rather take the bus than drive, even if driving and parking in Denver isn't nearly as much of an inconvenience as it is in SF. It also solves the "car trouble" issue for most people.

2: $7,500 each year for vacation - In a startup, you're going to work harder, probably for a bit less money, than anywhere else. Burnout will happen. This is our way to combat it. We remove the obstacle of "can't afford a vacation" by actually paying you to take one.

3: Powder Day Policy - There's 8 inches at Vail and you can't stand to be inside? Go. Take the day. Just don't screw over your team and make it up in the next two weeks. The same holds true when it's 72 and sunny for the first time in a month and you need to just get away.

What we found - First, the obvious. Recruiting engineering talent isn't easy. The same can be said for just about every position that a company needs to fill, but engineering is especially difficult. By way of comparison, we have 9 positions open right now and almost 3,000 applicants. Of those, only 2 percent have applied for the engineering positions.

79 percent have applied as "I just want to work at FullContact".

While that's a drastic difference, it's also better than what we were seeing prior to adding the "non-traditional" benefits as part of the recruiting/retention plan.

The real questions that will hit ZenPayroll (as they have us) are these - You're going to start getting a LOT more applicants. How much time do you have to put in to filter them? Are you going to start getting a lot more GOOD applicants? How many of them just want to game the system for a year to get a taste of the good life? Are your processes good enough to weed them out?

As an outsider with common ground, it's good to see even more companies taking this approach. But as an insider to the turbulence that they can create, I would urge them to make sure that they're as prepared as they can be for those bumps.

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