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I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

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Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally someone who gets it ... It's not about corruption, it's about control, don't forget that a major gas-line runs through Ukraine, supplying the rest of Europe with gas ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Major_russian_gas_pipeline... ). The future "wars" will be about resources, which gas is. The biggest group of protesters are all right-wing and not at all want to belong to Russia, if you ask the opinion of th…

Same situation in Syria, Only reason the west cares is because they want their 'friendship pipeline', might as well pay radicals to try topple the government so someone who would agree with US policies can be installed. Joining the EU is probably the worst thing that can happen to Ukraine. Only high performing nations benefit from the EU, everyone else gets screwed by the regulations. I remember reading an article th…

They didn't seem to realise that if Russia didn't do this, the russian markets would be flooded with cheap crap from the EU

And now they get expensive, quality stuff from China and Bangladesh indeed, makes sense.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#72
post #34
post #16

And again this is extremely one-sided. Propagandistic even. And it makes it to the top of HN. Again. "THE POLICE IS READY TO SHOOT". But she won't say that it's with rubber slugs or that the protesters are throwing molotovs and shooting fireworks (which can deal nasty damage). Rocks are implied, I think. I tried to really dig into the affair, but it's too complicated with both sides corrupt (like it typically happens…

> But she won't say that it's with rubber slugs or that the protesters are throwing molotovs and shooting fireworks (which can deal nasty damage). Rocks are implied, I think. Well, the protesters can't exactly afford highly sophisticated weapons made to inflict pain but not (too much) damage. They don't have the luxury of spending tax money on expensive equipment. The only reason there are rubber bullets is because t…

The keyword in your post is protesters. Using molotov cocktails, rocks and fireworks makes it a riot.

Also, I think it'd be useful to think about how western countries would handle this kind of "protest".

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#74
I'm not Ukranian, but I born on Ukraine and live there 16 years. We leave Ukraine at 1996. I'm watching on Ukraine because my school friends live there and I'm care for them.

Here's my opinion - there are tons video's how truck move in police. How footballs fanatics throw molotov to cops. Now they shoot from guns. This is not "only way" - this is just another one opposition politics game who want grab the power.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#75
Damn, she's pretty hot although the accent kind of kills my boner. I wonder though would I have clicked 'Play' on the video without the screenshot of the pretty Ukrainian blonde girl, say in the place of a Ukrainian male partisan of the same age? Was her message more persuasive through her voice and feminine presentation?

The fact that my Ghostery plugin had registered 16 trackers (including Buzzfeed.com) on thoughtcatalog.com (a "experimental" media group based in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, not NYC, not Brooklyn but Williamsburg, Brooklyn). Brief browse through their headlines runs the gamut of my typical FB newsfeed a la Buzzfeed about threesome sex, expensive college education, relationship fidelity and women's body image that exploit the insecure and the well-meaning.

The copy reads like the typical HuffPo copy on the Sochi Olympics (the current "hot-button" issue on "homosexual propaganda laws" but no coverage on Chechnya and Russian oppression on the Norther Caucus where we are "partners against Terrorism" now) /China-Tibet issue (where we celebrate the "peaceful and oppressed" Tibetans" but not the similarly oppressed Muslims in Xinjian)/Arab Spring (where we celebrate the initial "Spring of Democracy" and now remain mum on the chaos that ensues in Libya/Egypt/Syria).

Brave New World got it right. Our media has become the soma and reality MTV to validate our own prejudices and tug at our indignation and emotions.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for that. As a European, I would add that you really need to be aware that the country seems to be split along historical lines: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/01/24... It seems that Kiev, the capital, happens to be in a region that is dominated by Ukrainian-speaking people, who feel closer to (Western/Central) Europe than to Russia. Therefore, a lot of protests are happening in the…

Belgium was split along historical lines but they talked over their differences and found common ground. The result of that was the beginning of the European Union which is why Brussels, Belgium is the EU capital today. So why can't the Ukrainians solve their problems the EU way?

Because being split between France and the Netherlands is a conflict of slightly different magnitude than being split between Russia and Europe.

And I don't think that if you talk with Belgians many will agree that their model is in any way, shape or form to be used as a model for other countries.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#77
post #42
post #33

Please, the Ukrainian rebels are pretty much controlled by the US, who are using fascist elements to increase the level of violence. Molotov cocktails and fireworks aren't exactly 'non-violent'. The police response has been quite measured I think...

Controlled by the US? Citation needed.

US diplomat conversation that was recorded by Russia. Was all over the news, except everyone reported the 'fuck the EU' bit, and not the meat of the conversation.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#78
post #68
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was growing up, one of the standard places that used to be cited for this line of reasoning was the Eastern Block. And certainly looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring there was evidence that peaceful protest wouldn't work. But what happened? Oh right. Peaceful protest brought down the Soviet block.

I'm from Eastern Europe. I'm still not sure if we got extremely lucky (e.g. economical situation of Soviet Union being in very bad condition, US getting technological breakthrough with personal computers) or "peaceful" part actually worked out.

The theory I've heard which makes the most sense is that the CIA and Catholic Church had an alliance of convenience. The CIA provided resources (including training materials), the Church had a network to distribute them where they were needed.

They did a trial run with Solidarity in Poland (not coincidentally the home country of the pope at the time) and then rolled it out on a larger scale after that succeeded.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#79
I'm kindda baffled by some of the comments here. The same place where NSA spying is readily condemned, people seem to be oblivious to all the ways in which manipulation works. Generations of exercising democracy tend to make young people blind to all the ways in which it can be detoured, it seems.

There's no question that this video is propagandistic in nature. Both sides release propaganda materials. The only reason you don't see the other ones is that they're in Russian and therefore of little interest in the Western media. We should definitely think the video as little more than another attempt at manipulation, but a lot of skepticism of another kind is unwarranted.

> Do you want to spread this message in your countries? This summer when there is an Occupy or 99% demonstration in your country, do you want young men in helmets and mass carrying baseball bats and molotov cocktails to take charge of it? Will you carry a pistol with you at the demonstration to shoot police officers?

It's easy to describe the occupants of the Maidan in these terms:

> They sit there at the Maidan with a 24 hour diet of patriotic songs and exhortations to valor and courage. If you wanted to set up a camp to train suicide bombers, this is exactly the kind of propaganda barrage that you would use. These people are brainwashed zombies and they are trying to use YOU to infect everyone else in preparation for the REAL zombie apocalypse.

On the other hand, quickly conducting a poll among them would probably let you find quite a few who are equally disgusted by how the "Occupy" movement turned out. Ukraine isn't exactly a democratic country; people get arrested and beaten just for standing in the wrong place, and they are genuinely outraged that peaceful protest has led them to nothing but leg pain.

I wouldn't want yong men in helmets carrying baseball bats and Molotov cocktails down my street, either. That being said, if you stroll around at an Occupy demonstration, you're probably bound to find more people frustrated that they're living in their cars than car owners in Ukraine. It's a place where, if you get pepper-sprayed by the police, you don't end up giving horrible testimonies in the media while the policeman gets a modest disciplinary sanction. You get beaten and tortured, Western media gives you a pat on the back, the policeman gets a promotion. How exactly do you expect people to deal with this non-violently?

> "THE POLICE IS READY TO SHOOT". But she won't say that it's with rubber slugs or that the protesters are throwing molotovs and shooting fireworks (which can deal nasty damage). Rocks are implied, I think.

You also fail to mention the tear gas and the grenades. More than half of last night's dead are civilians. Unless they're really fucking confused and throwing rocks at each other (which, given their steady resistance, they probably aren't), the police is dealing some fairly nasty damage, too.

> But how did this president became elected? The girl in the video speaks about dictatorship. But is it one? It bugs me, that we do not hear the voices of those in support of the current government. We always get to see the Maidan and maybe some other confined protests in other cities. In the media, it looks like the whole country is uprising. But that can't be the whole truth. If the government has no support at all, it would not still be in power.

This is simply not the way it works. Yes, it's the way it works in the US, in Germany, in UK, in Iceland -- countries that have a democratic tradition of hundreds of years or even more.

Given enough interest and control, people win elections by rigging and stay in power by tight group binding. If the Prime Minister, the President, and the Ministers of Internal Affair and Defense are on good terms, how exactly do you think relinquishing power happens? People sit around in a circle and think hm, maybe we should step down?

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#80
post #49
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is difficult to see how Gandhi's methods could be applied in a country where opponents of the regime disappear in the middle of the night and are never heard of again. Without a free press and the right of assembly, it is impossible not merely to appeal to outside opinion, but to bring a mass movement into being, or even to make your intentions known to your adversary. -- George Orwell There are places on earth wh…

When I was growing up, one of the standard places that used to be cited for this line of reasoning was the Eastern Block. And certainly looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring there was evidence that peaceful protest wouldn't work. But what happened? Oh right. Peaceful protest brought down the Soviet block.

What brought down the Soviet Block in the end was Mikhail Gorbachev deciding that there's enough blood on soviet hands and that they won't react the same way they did in the Prague Spring. He could have decided otherwise, he didn't. Shall the protesters hope the same will happen now? Didn't work so far.
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