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I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

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Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#61

Post by bonzoq »

memracom wrote: post #39

This is a pure propaganda piece that shows nothing other than some skill in video editing and constructing a sound track. Think, people, think. Do you want to spread this message in your countries? This summer when there is an Occupy or 99% demonstration in your country, do you want young men in helmets and masks carrying baseball bats and molotov cocktails to take charge of it? Will you carry a pistol with you at th…

Thank you for this comment. Those people occupying the square in Kyiv are incapable of any form of compromise. They refused to leave government buildings that they occupied, their leaders refused government posts they were offered, and for example recently one of the judges that sentenced protestors to house arrest was shot on the street to death. Why won't they peacefully wait for the next elections which will be in just a year? After all the current president is democratically elected and nobody disputes this.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#62

Post by mtrimpe »

bonzoq wrote: post #50
zura wrote: post #30

The sad fact is that while Russia keeps making active steps, EU only gets "concerned", but nothing more... It is time for EU to do some real actions (not sanctions...). They should propose some real alternative options, even for Yanukovich - maybe a full EU membership or something similar, bit more than just Association Agreement.

Ukraine is incapable of a full EU Membership at the moment. It is a highly corrupt country and cannot be accepted into the club. An association agreement would help Ukraine approach European standards in terms of modern law, fighting corruption, but most importantly it would give it access to the common market. Which means they would get a highly effective fishing-rod instead of a short-term supply of semi -fresh fis…

And that is exactly what this is all about.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#63

Post by daliusd »

emocakes wrote: post #45
daliusd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are spreading some FUD. Foreign politics of US or Russia definitely is in actions here but so what? What if people of Ukraine have actually some ideals and dreams about their future like people in the rest of the world? OK your name contains "emo" so maybe that's why you don't get it but that's ad hominem from my side.

I certainly hope you were never on any debating team with arguments like those. Of course the people of Ukraine have visions and dreams about their future. What you are seeing in this video though, or on any western media (and eastern media for that matter) is not indicative of what the Ukrainian people actually want. Jumping onto either bandwagon only because of what you read in your twitter feed is just stupid.

Well, as I'm from Eastern Europe and work in international company it somehow happens that I have some connecting points with Ukrainian people.

Your first comment is about US only and doesn't mention Russia. You did that only with your last comment "(and eastern media for that matter)".

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#64

Post by bksenior »

memracom wrote: post #39

This is a pure propaganda piece that shows nothing other than some skill in video editing and constructing a sound track. Think, people, think. Do you want to spread this message in your countries? This summer when there is an Occupy or 99% demonstration in your country, do you want young men in helmets and masks carrying baseball bats and molotov cocktails to take charge of it? Will you carry a pistol with you at th…

This attitude is a big problem at best and purposefully dangerous at worst. In most systematic oppressive situations the smaller voice gets very few moments to speak. All issues are complex and worse yet opaque, but videos serve as smoke, and when your eye follows the smoke sometimes you find fire and sometimes you dont. So now people can peruse their own facts and share this video to others who might jump in the fray.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#65

Post by tonyedgecombe »

xmpir wrote: post #38
zura wrote: post #30

The sad fact is that while Russia keeps making active steps, EU only gets "concerned", but nothing more... It is time for EU to do some real actions (not sanctions...). They should propose some real alternative options, even for Yanukovich - maybe a full EU membership or something similar, bit more than just Association Agreement.

The problem with the EU is, that the different member states have different interests - there is no "European" opinion and therefore no real actions will be done soon...

Which is probably quite a good thing.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#67

Post by memracom »

mtrimpe wrote: post #25
Aoyagi wrote: post #16

And again this is extremely one-sided. Propagandistic even. And it makes it to the top of HN. Again. "THE POLICE IS READY TO SHOOT". But she won't say that it's with rubber slugs or that the protesters are throwing molotovs and shooting fireworks (which can deal nasty damage). Rocks are implied, I think. I tried to really dig into the affair, but it's too complicated with both sides corrupt (like it typically happens…

The EU was ready to have Ukraine go through another one of their lengthy entry processes where over a period of years requirements are progressively put in place to enable joining the EU. The current protests erupted when one of the first steps along that path was openly scuttled by Russia applying a huge amount of financial leverage. It is true that only half of Ukraine wants to join the west, but it's also clear th…

The EU had Ukraine over a barrel and was demanding that they sign a punitive agreement that would have caused even greater hardship than the country is suffering now. Have you read that association agreement? It is brutal.

What I want to know is why can't Kyiv negotiate its way into the EU in stages, step by step, and at each stage the agreement would be small enough that it could be explained to the people of Ukraine and they could vote in a referendum based on the facts, rather than some fantasy ideal of "sign document, get rich".

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#68

Post by daliusd »

btilly wrote: post #49
kamaal wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is difficult to see how Gandhi's methods could be applied in a country where opponents of the regime disappear in the middle of the night and are never heard of again. Without a free press and the right of assembly, it is impossible not merely to appeal to outside opinion, but to bring a mass movement into being, or even to make your intentions known to your adversary. -- George Orwell There are places on earth wh…

When I was growing up, one of the standard places that used to be cited for this line of reasoning was the Eastern Block. And certainly looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring there was evidence that peaceful protest wouldn't work. But what happened? Oh right. Peaceful protest brought down the Soviet block.

I'm from Eastern Europe. I'm still not sure if we got extremely lucky (e.g. economical situation of Soviet Union being in very bad condition, US getting technological breakthrough with personal computers) or "peaceful" part actually worked out.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#69

Post by varjag »

emocakes wrote: post #17
opionion-matter wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally someone who gets it ... It's not about corruption, it's about control, don't forget that a major gas-line runs through Ukraine, supplying the rest of Europe with gas ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Major_russian_gas_pipeline... ). The future "wars" will be about resources, which gas is. The biggest group of protesters are all right-wing and not at all want to belong to Russia, if you ask the opinion of th…

Same situation in Syria, Only reason the west cares is because they want their 'friendship pipeline', might as well pay radicals to try topple the government so someone who would agree with US policies can be installed. Joining the EU is probably the worst thing that can happen to Ukraine. Only high performing nations benefit from the EU, everyone else gets screwed by the regulations. I remember reading an article th…

> Joining the EU is probably the worst thing that can happen to Ukraine. Only high performing nations benefit from the EU, everyone else gets screwed by the regulations.

This is not the whole story. Broke in their time nations like Ireland or Portugal benefited immensely from joining the EU. While they are not anywhere near "high performance" still, participating in common labor and trade market with enforced regulations standards pulled them out of mud.

Also let's not forget that the alternative is integration into Russian zone of influence. You can doubt the merits of EU, but life as a Russian colony would not bring prosperity (let alone justice) to Ukraine, no matter how many petrodollars circulate in the metropole. Ukrainans will always be an afterthought.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#70

Post by emocakes »

ckoepp wrote: post #59
emocakes wrote: post #6

Lets all forget about the US trying to manipulate the outcome of these riots, already deciding who will be in power. The only reason the US and by proxy, the EU cares about the Ukraine is so they can put another load of Patriot Missiles there; to protect Europe from Iran and North Korea of course, it has nothing to do with gaining a strategic advantage over Russia. The cold war never ended.

Patriot missiles in Ukraine to protect the US and EU from North Korea and Iran?! Well, get back to your geography homework and have a look where the Ukraine is located...

http://www.cfr.org/missile-defense/us-ballistic-missile-defe...

"The Aegis BMD system is the linchpin of the Obama administration's plan for a missile defense umbrella in Europe intended to protect U.S. forces and NATO allies from Iranian short- and medium-range ballistic missiles."

Do your homework. (although I did mislabel the missile system, its aegis, not patriot that are being used here)

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