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Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

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Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#51
post #13

What about Nicotine? Back in college and for a few years afterward, I used to put in a big fat dip (or chew) for all/late-nighters to help me buckle down, focus, and stay alert. I stopped for all the standard health reasons, but I find that caffeine is only about 2/3 as good.

Using nicotine gum, you can avoid the typical health hazards of tobacco products. I personally found that caffeine wasn't comparable to nicotine, the former just keeps me awake, while the latter can keep me focused and motivated for several hours.

Not a good idea. Nicotine gum is not too good for gingival health. Nicotine patch is consider the safest form of nicotine delivery. Also the most expensive. E-cigarette is a good 2nd option. Vape unflavored or menthol, because the health effects of flavorings are still out there. Vendors have mostly stopped using diacetyl in their flavorings. Diacetyl gives that vanilla aroma, but also responsible for popcorn lung. Still they're using acetoin which could convert to diacetyl in small amount uncertain conditions. There's also the issue of vegetable glycerin (used as a carrier) converting to acrolein under high heat. I think this is a non issue if you don't let your atomizer gunk up, which inhibits heat transfer from the coil.

I'm alarmed at the ubiquitous use of aldehydes in flavorings. Most of these have no solid research proving the safety.

If money is not an issue, I would use the patch everyday instead of e-cig.

Nicotine, I've found, is the only sustainable option in the long run. Methylphenidate, amphetamines, other dopaminergics, caffeine, modafinil, they all poop out eventually.

I'm also convinced that nicotine is the safest and most effective nootropics known at the moment until cortex gets around to releasing their ampakine. The structures of which are all under secret, so we self-experimenters can't even get it custom synthesized.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#52
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using nicotine gum, you can avoid the typical health hazards of tobacco products. I personally found that caffeine wasn't comparable to nicotine, the former just keeps me awake, while the latter can keep me focused and motivated for several hours.

Is nicotine gum actually not a health risk? Tobacco held in the mouth (for example Scandinavian 'snus') certainly has serious effects with long-term use, albeit they aren't exactly the same as smoking cigarettes. Gum is generally sold for short term use, so not sure if it's actually better, or just not generally used for long enough to see the effects.

The gum poses risk to the gingival tissues. It can cause gum recession. Not to mention it also taste terrible and hard to control delivery. Chewing it too fast can leave you woozy and nauseous.

The reason I prefer nicotine over other stimulants, it's oddly relaxing and motivating at the same time.

Caffeine either leaves me jittery or anxious or it doesn't work at all after 2 weeks. There is a ton of research out there proving the positive effects of nicotine.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#53
I've been taking modafinil for a while now (over a year). I initially started taking it to help with a massive workload at my job. I was a long-time software engineer at Google at the time. I was utterly burned out and couldn't retain my focus for more than 10-15 minutes- definitely not enough when you're writing c++ code and need to retain a huge amount of state in your head (header file definitions, pointer ownership, etc. etc.). But i wasn't in a situation where i could immediately take time off or change jobs/groups. So i started taking Modafinil to see if it would help me concentrate and get things done.

The immediate benefit and the thing that i still love it for today is how focused it makes me. As a programmer, most of my day is just getting things typed out. Pure creative thinking is maybe 1 hour a day at best. Without modafinil, if people came and interrupted me, i would get distracted, surf the web and it could easily take me upto an hour to get my head back in the code (especially since i hated what i was doing). With Modafinil, i would just retain stuff and be able to get back to work immediately. I'm in my mid-30s. Even on a good day, without Modafinil, i could stay in flow for maybe an hour or so before i would get distracted and lose focus. On Modafinil, 3 hours is average, 4 hours happens sometimes.

You know when you're fixing bugs in a big codebase and for each bug you kind of have to load up state in your head and think -oh yeah i need to change x,y,z here and a,b,c there and these tests 1,2,3 have to change and i should probably make sure foo and bar are still working. Well with modafinil i was able to think of that and keep all of it in my head for the 2-3 hours it would take me to type out a fix. Or you're reading a few bug reports and you are working on fixing one - you look at the file you're in and realize that while you're working in that file you could fix 2 or 3 other things or you could do a refactor - and you just do it without losing state in your head of where you are in the original bug. Modafinil let me do that- it was totally like a ram upgrade. (Or really like i wasn't burned out or was 25 again or something).

So yeah my short-term recall also went up. Another example - at google we had lots of command line tools each with tons of options. It used to be a real mental effort for me to recall the 8-10 options i would have to pass on the command-line along with gigantic path and filenames to get something simple done. This isn't uncommon- some of the most popular internal webpages are commandline option references for the really common tools. And it was a huge distraction - to have to drop what you're doing to have to go to some webpage, scroll around or click find until you found some poorly documented option that maybe did what you wanted etc. With Modafinil, that was all just in my head for the whole day - enough so that at the end of the day i could make up shell scripts for the useful stuff, but during the day i could work really fast because i wasn't looking stuff up all the time.

So yeah it did great things for me. But the bad news- i tried taking it every day - after a week, paranoia set in and mood swings. I would get extremely defensive about simple comments in code reviews. Typically i would take 200mg only in the morning so i could sleep at night- but if my schedule was bad and i went more than 3-4 days without sleep i would start having persistent hallucinations that lasted 10-15 seconds - not just corner of the eye stuff but talking to people who weren't there.

Nowadays, i take it at most 100 mg at a time a maximum of twice a week. I really enjoy programming and i want to think i'm good at it so taking Modafinil felt a little like cheating with steroids or something. My current job is much easier than Google and I've been able to replace most of the positive effects of Moda by doing a ton more planning - e.g. i help my short term memory by writing copious comments, keeping a detailed log of exactly what i'm doing in org-mode, exercising good email discipline, writing code much more defensively so i don't actually keep a lot of state in my head etc. etc. I meditate every day even for 5 minutes just in case that will help with focus. A lot of this works really well. But if the shit hits the fan at work and I'm debugging blind in a bunch of crappy code i've never seen before, or my fragile ego requires I be the guy who is just faster than others and gets stuff done, that's when i still reach for Modafinil.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#54

The definition of nootropics used here excludes them (too many adverse health effects), but I wonder how the drugs on this list compare to e.g. amphetamines in terms of pro-productivity effects.

The problem with amphetamine is, when they do work, the crash is horrible. When the crash goes away, it no longer does anything. So you have to up the dose and the cycle starts again. Some people use NMDA antagonist to reverse tolerance, but lets just say that they do a lot more than reverse your tolerance.

In the end, most user end up with a permanent tolerance that no amount of drug vacation will lower.

I'm not even mentioning here the whole issue of amphetamine disrupting vesicle pH gradient, causing dopamine leakage. Dopamine is very prone is auto-oxidation to quinone when they float free around in the cytosol.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#55

Okay, I have read the fine blog post (which took a while to load). The article leads off by defining nootropics as "substances which purportedly improve mental functioning with relatively few side effects when used responsibility." The blog post author mentions a few small-n, limited duration studies, and then describes his voluntary-response survey methodology: "I asked people in the two largest online nootropics co…

I believe the author of this piece is keenly aware of the issues inherent to study designs such as this, which is why he discusses the methodological issues in this post. He has discussed methodological issues at length in previous posts (he is a psychiatry resident, and one who frequently goes back and addresses the primary literature) and that is taken as context to his regular readers, explaining why he doesn't devote more time to disclaimers.

Your exhortation that he should spend more time on basic understanding of statistics is misplaced, because he understands these issues, but he has different philosophical views than you on how information should be gathered and processed. Specifically, it seems to be your view that information received with noise and bias should be given (literally) zero weight, that information should be ignored unless it comes in the form of peer-reviewed, random controlled clinical trials. His philosophical view is that all information should be given some appropriate weight, and that the costs to acquire information are relevant. Random, controlled clinical trials are costly, and so we will never have them on a variety of topics of interest to us. To account for this finiteness of resources, and to suggest which areas could be more fruitful for future formal trials, it seems wise to acquire that information which can be cheaply had. This is an attempt to gather that information.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#56

Okay, I have read the fine blog post (which took a while to load). The article leads off by defining nootropics as "substances which purportedly improve mental functioning with relatively few side effects when used responsibility." The blog post author mentions a few small-n, limited duration studies, and then describes his voluntary-response survey methodology: "I asked people in the two largest online nootropics co…

What would you take as objective and verifiable information?

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#57
post #11

I think you have to have certain conditions for nootropics to really do anything. I take Aniracetam and it makes a big difference in my life. I take a LOT less than most people, and the thing I notice is that I don't have songs stuck in my head. This may seem like a weird condition to be trying to get rid of but it makes a huge difference in my life and my concentration. There may be other effects, and some fuzzy met…

I was really surprised at the effect of aniracetam also. Usually most of these nootropics either do nothing or they jack up your heart-rate like any other stimulants. It's interesting to note that aniracetam is considered an ampakine, which lowers the threshold required for long-term potentiation.

When I was taking aniracetam, the anxiolytic effect was too strong to be placebo. Almost as strong as alcohol. I was genuinely surprised. It makes activities like staring at leaves fluttering almost magical. Eventually I gave it up because this effect wore off and it was too expensive.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#58

Okay, I have read the fine blog post (which took a while to load). The article leads off by defining nootropics as "substances which purportedly improve mental functioning with relatively few side effects when used responsibility." The blog post author mentions a few small-n, limited duration studies, and then describes his voluntary-response survey methodology: "I asked people in the two largest online nootropics co…

I think you're missing some context here. The survey was only supposed to be better than the anecdotes that were accumulating previously. Solicited head to head anecdotes are better than unsolicited anecdotes without comparisons.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/1xglcg/a_survey_...

This wasn't meant to convince anyone to take nootropics.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#59
post #48
post #11

I think you have to have certain conditions for nootropics to really do anything. I take Aniracetam and it makes a big difference in my life. I take a LOT less than most people, and the thing I notice is that I don't have songs stuck in my head. This may seem like a weird condition to be trying to get rid of but it makes a huge difference in my life and my concentration. There may be other effects, and some fuzzy met…

I've been following this topic for 20-30 years and this is the only supplement I've taken where I've felt mental state changes. Its a noticeable anxiolytic. If its not a strong one, I can only wonder at what a real strong one must feel like. Not feeling "performance anxiety" most likely does improve performance for most people. Where you obtain this stuff is a mystery. Amazon used to ship it, but it appears and disap…

You can find bulk powder but I find the taste unbearable. Rx aniracetam is far too expensive. I'm just waiting for the day when cortex gets their high-impact ampakine onto the market.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#60
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get that doctor's prescription in the US?

FYI: I would strongly suggest getting a RX for Modafinil (Provigil) and not Nuvigil (Amodifinil). Nuvigil is very expensive and my insurance company required a whole battery of additional tests before they paid for it. I believe Modafinil is now generic so I imagine they care much less.

Last time I checked, cephalon had some sort shady deal to keep generic modafinil off the market for a few more years (paying generic manufacturers to not bring it to market). If modafinil goes generic, it will be really good news.
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