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A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

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Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#111

Post by claudius »

ksk wrote: post #40

This article doesn't pass the smell test. There is nothing magical about 40 hours per week. 60 hours is just as arbitrary as 40. Also, it probably originated when people did actual physical labor, and so it wont apply to dev work. Countless people in the sciences have toiled day and night to bring about great discoveries - and that's a good thing. Question: Do non-software people (I'm thinking Scientists, Mathematici…

Complain about 60 hours/week? Rarely. Work 60 hours/week? Rarely.

Professors tend to put in roughly 40 to 80 hours depending on their scientific and organisational workload, but most others hardly ever work 60 hours/week with an average of 40-ish. But then, nobody really measures how much time they put in, and you have to keep in mind that in science, the ‘passive work’ done sort-of in the background while doing something else plays a larger role than in programming (at least that’s my impression).

That said, 40 hours is not entirely unjustified, given that 8 hours/day is relatively practical if you want to have both breakfast and dinner at home with an 2hours/day commute and that at least most universities are relatively closed-down on weekends (though some enjoy the much more quiet environment…).

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#112

Post by gedrap »

saamm wrote: post #76
Iftheshoefits wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't suggest that introversion has anything whatsoever to do with what you've described. Introversion/extroversion has little or nothing to do with overworking oneself.

I think he may be implying that it is easier to handle the lower levels of social interaction (with friends/family) that come along with working a lot of hours if you're more introverted.

Exactly. My socially needs are rather low, so going for dinner with friends a couple times a week and having random small talk between the lectures are enough for me :)

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#113

Post by djyaz1200 »

mindcrime wrote: post #45

For most people, I'd agree. But as a startup founder, given how resource constrained we are (and we've chosen the self-funded, bootstrapping model for now) I don't have a whole lot of choice if we're going to succeed. Especially when you factor in that I still work a regular job to pay the bills. So, 40 hrs at the regular job + x hours working on the startup, where x consumes almost every evening and almost all day o…

You had me there till the end... Maybe just rent the Ferrari and the girl :)

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#114

Post by zanny »

cdcarter wrote: post #73
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an option?

Yes. Most people who are employed full-time are expected to work full-time. Yes, they could leave full-time work and fine new sources of income, but that no longer falls under "just work 30 hours instead".

This doesn't mean that you are suited for 40 hours a week.

It just means you have no option but to overwork yourself.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#115

Post by helipad »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #56

This false dichotomy is seriously getting annoying. If 60 hours is sustainable for you, do it. If only 30 hours is sustainable for you, do that instead. But stop imposing onto others what is right or wrong when there are so many factors at play. Some of my most productive memories are summers studying and working for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week (= 72 hours). I didn't get tired, burned out, or anything. Another summ…

I agree with the sentiment, but the point of the post wasn't that working 60 hour weeks is wrong - it was that boasting "woe is me" having voluntarily worked long hours isn't impressive.

As you say, results are what impress people.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#116

Post by dmunoz »

rickhanlonii wrote: post #52
sergiotapia wrote: post #12

I work 40 hours a week at maximum - most weeks I work about 34 to 38 hours. You 80 hours a week guys, what the hell are you doing with your time? Are you divorced? No family? No friends? Is 'disrupting' an industry really that important to you?

My name is Rick and I'm a 80 hour a week guy. I'm 26, single, and have no pets. I have a family and friends, but I'm very transparent about my work habits and priorities as a full-stack engineer. Being so young, I see myself as training to be the person I want to be in the future. The best programmers in the world worked at it relentlessly. Sure, there are variances in the amount that they all worked, and some did it…

> So I train, and that means I'm an 80 hours a week guy.

Doesn't follow. I consider myself to be on a similar path, perhaps with a touch less passion than yourself. I wish for my future work to be meaningful and beneficial for many, but I don't necessarily ache to "make a meaningful impact on the world." That can be done almost trivially by being kind and helpful to those around you. It doesn't have to be some epoch creating achievement.

I study. I read similar books to you. My end goal is to be really good at what I do, but I don't need to spend 80 hours a week doing it. Are you going to get there faster? I'm not so sure.

One thing that really stuck out to me about your comment:

> So I've aligned my life such that those interactions still help me reach my upper bound. My friends are smarter than I am and many are in technical fields so getting a beer with them involves talking about a hard problem we solved.

Do you never take a break? I go out with great friends that are entirely non-technical, and often never discuss a technical matter all weekend. I don't even think about how "smart" they are. I don't expect my friends to be smarter than I am. I hang out with smart people on occasion, but it's not a requirement.

[Edit: Just to be clear, what I am trying to get across in the above paragraph is my surprise that your choices targeting balance, your social interaction and hobbies, are calculated to derived benefit. Take it when you can, but what you're attempting sounds overbearing. Enjoy some downtime. Don't even think whether it is beneficial or not. What are you missing out on because it's seemingly not beneficial? I would argue: a lot.]

I spend hours reading great fiction with no technical information to be gained. My hobbies are completely divorced from what I want to get great at, and I strive to become good, not great, at them. Yet, I never feel like my true passion suffers.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#117

Post by aet »

a3voices wrote: post #2

Does 60 hours mean you're doing work the whole time, or is 1/2 of it browsing the Internet?

I think you've nailed it. I'd be really shocked to find someone working 9am-9pm straight, no lunch or dinner break 5 days a week. I used to do shift work (IT) 7am-7pm 3 days a week, which, to me, was burn out level. I used to feel over worked even though every weekend was a 4 day weekend. Can't imagine adding 2 more days.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#118

Post by kenster07 »

Actually, it is almost universally admired when a person pushes him or herself. One way to do that happens to be to work harder than other people. Now, it can get to the point where you become so inefficient that it's stupid. No, we don't typically admire stupidity. But let's not kid ourselves -- hard work is respectable.

As an extreme example, I'd wager that most people instinctively admire those who can make it all the way through Navy SEAL bootcamp, and one of the reasons is that participants are literally working NONSTOP during that period, at a level of physical exertion that most people nowadays could not sustain for a few hours, let alone days on end.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#119

Post by aet »

pyrrhotech wrote: post #103
rickhanlonii wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My name is Rick and I'm a 80 hour a week guy. I'm 26, single, and have no pets. I have a family and friends, but I'm very transparent about my work habits and priorities as a full-stack engineer. Being so young, I see myself as training to be the person I want to be in the future. The best programmers in the world worked at it relentlessly. Sure, there are variances in the amount that they all worked, and some did it…

I don't believe you are an 80 hour a week man. Unless you count reading HN, browsing the web, reading email, eating lunch, commuting to work, getting ready for work etc. NO ONE does 80 hours of legitimate work a week. It's a myth.

I agree. 80hours ~ 12 hours 7 days a week w/ 30 min break for lunch. I work all day all the time, but it often equates to 8 hours a day, not 12. Even if you work 7-8s that is less than 60 hours.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#120

Post by aeonsky »

interstitial wrote: post #85
Derbasti wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics tell a different story. There were numerous studies on productivity relative to many measures. Then again, you know, you might be a actual snowflake...

You might be an over-generalizing, OCD-obessed quant who is often wrong as No True Scotsman ever is.

Maybe he is from Scotland, how would you know?
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