Does 60 hours mean you're doing work the whole time, or is 1/2 of it browsing the Internet?
I can only draw from anecdotes, but those align with your suspicion: where overtime was mandatory (where management was largely about maximizing suffering ^1, as if suffering has any value by itself), everyone simply compensated by doing less real work per work hour. It does seem like many people have a fixed quantity of productive output, and the decision is simply about how much to spread it out. This isn't true fo…
A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour
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Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour
#42I wonder if the author would give the same advice to famous workaholics like Paul Erdos? Here's my issue: I'm an entrepreneur. Doing a startup is my dream. I'm having fun and creating amazing memories. I work as much as I possibly can. Stopping me from working on my startup is like keeping a child locked in a room. I don't force my team to do the same (and they don't). I don't brag about it, I am not burning out, not…
We should be very careful when we're talking about employees though.
Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour
#43However, I do find long hours may result out of necessity for the sheer work involved as well. Especially in the earlier days of a company, you compensate for an initial lack of resources and staff by performing multiple roles.
On the business side, you could easily see your mornings taken up by customer calls (especially if you have an international market), the afternoons spent on ad campaigns and marketing content, the late afternoons on general office management. In the evenings when there's less client interaction, I would spend time on product feedback, some data analysis and metrics reporting for the day/week's past. This could easily extend to a 60-80 hour work week, and I would consider fairly typical of early startups.
As you grow there's less need for sure to work so long, as the company grows and responsibilities become more focused. But overall, I think there are circumstances where a 60-80 hr workweeks are necessary, and not necessarily an indication of a problem.
Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour
#44I wonder if the author would give the same advice to famous workaholics like Paul Erdos? Here's my issue: I'm an entrepreneur. Doing a startup is my dream. I'm having fun and creating amazing memories. I work as much as I possibly can. Stopping me from working on my startup is like keeping a child locked in a room. I don't force my team to do the same (and they don't). I don't brag about it, I am not burning out, not…
Back in the day, I was a salaryman. A Japanese megacorp owned me body and soul.
If you had asked me, during much of those three years, whether I was overworked, I would have told you no. Seventy hours was surely not more than many salarymen worked, and anyhow, I had just had a nice relaxing 50 hour week only... what month is it again? I would have described myself as an attentive boyfriend, and didn't understand at all why a girlfriend might disagree with that assessment. My best friends had an album titled Patrick Falling Asleep At Parties -- they were such kidders, those two. I had blackouts. I stayed in a hotel frequently, some days because it was impossible to catch the last train but some days because while I technically could have made the train I was staggering so much I was uncertain that I'd make it home safely. Somebody once did a graph of HN posts by hour it was utterly impossible to identify core sleep hours for me by looking at it, for three years. When my salaryman friends and I got together for dinners we'd do the requisite amount of kvetching about our jobs and then talk about people who had real problems. Did you hear about how bad it gets at the Tokyo office? Cripes, we dodged a bullet, didn't we.
In hindsight, I can only describe it as three years of temporary insanity.
I don't want to attack any part of your self-conception, and wish only for your happiness. In that spirit: consider the possibility that alexandros is executing on unreliable hardware and attempt to get verifiable external measurements about what that hardware is telling you.
Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour
#45So, 40 hrs at the regular job + x hours working on the startup, where x consumes almost every evening and almost all day on Sat. and Sunday, I'm regularly doing 70+ hour weeks.
Humblebrag? I don't know, and I don't care. I just care about getting this damn thing going and achieving my dreams.
Luckily I enjoy this, because I'm working on something I am actually passionate about. Not that it doesn't get frustrating on occasion, but most of the time it's more pleasure than pain.
So why do all this? Well, as theorique says here:
It isn't about disrupting an industry. It's about money.
That's a little bit of an oversimplification, but there's a lot of truth there. There are things I'd like to do, dreams I'd like to live out, that I can't do at my present level of income. But it's more than that for me (and, I'm guessing, for a lot of other people). I work on building a startup because A. I enjoy the act of building and creating something, and B. as the founder I'm in control and get to call the shots. Here, succeed for fail, it'll be down to my decisions and actions, not some random $BOSS. (Yeah, yeah, go ahead and chime in "everything is luck" crowd. I don't care about you either).
Anyway, when I get tired of working I just imagine myself cruising through New York or London, driving a Ferrari while getting sucked off by a gorgeous readheaded supermodel, and remind myself that there are reasons for doing all this work...
Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour
#46Who the fuck brags about this? Who the fuck thinks this is a good thing? This happened to me recently. More than 70h per week. But that's not. The fact of the matter is, I was the sole programmer on the product and the product is so attached to me that if it fails, I fail. I don't see it that way, but the employees at the place I work at do. The clients who were brought in to meet me, do.
1) Sending out team wide emails very late at night and on the weekends
2) Sending out team wide code reviews very late at night and on the weekends
3) Monday morning during scrum standup mentioning "Over the weekend I did..."
I believe the above behavior is eventually toxic to a team if done on a regular basis.
Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem comes from the culture; certain cultures identify success as the core value of a person, so people tend to identify their identity with the product of their work. It's more than some "important"; work is how people [with this attitude] values theirselves. Keep in mind that if you grow up pushed to be the best at school and then at work, there's nothing really meaningful in life outside those areas. That's…
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour
#48When people want their time to be respected, they show how little free time they have. They basically are saying they are dirt-poor in time.
Imagine if people all announced they were dirt-poor in money. And when they met up with their friends, they kept saying, somewhat with pride, how little money they have saved up. In the USA that would seem ludicrous.
Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour
#49I work 40 hours a week at maximum - most weeks I work about 34 to 38 hours. You 80 hours a week guys, what the hell are you doing with your time? Are you divorced? No family? No friends? Is 'disrupting' an industry really that important to you?
The time constraint is more motivating when you're working on your product full time and have not released yet (are not making any money).
Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour
#50Agree that the # of hours worked in a week is by no means an indication of productivity, and sometimes perhaps a product of a misaligned culture. However, I do find long hours may result out of necessity for the sheer work involved as well. Especially in the earlier days of a company, you compensate for an initial lack of resources and staff by performing multiple roles. On the business side, you could easily see you…