The Book of Graham • Hacker News Board

Re: The Book of Graham

#121

Post by testiclepizza » Sat, Feb 15, 2014, 6:23 AM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #118

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have enough money, you can do anything you want. Man lives not by bread alone. Only a simple hedonist is going to find contentedness through a pallet of cash.

It's not the actual cash. Money is actually worthless in and of itself, it's the using of it that makes it worthwhile. Money gets you access to resources to MAKE things, that is why R&D takes so much money. You have to pay a lot of people to think and work hard - only if it's your money you can pay them to think and work hard on YOUR idea and YOUR dream. Money also gets you the ability to influence change, politicall…

Money doesn't make you any smarter.

Money doesn't give you the satisfaction of hard, principled work or the contentedness of having succeeded from an unlikely position.

Money doesn't give you a loving family or friends.

In other words, money only makes you contented if what makes you content can be purchased.

Re: The Book of Graham

#122

Post by coldtea » Sat, Feb 15, 2014, 6:50 AM UTC

argonaut wrote: post #120

pron wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly. Exploitation is taking advantage of the other party's lack of options – which results in its lack of bargaining power – for an unfair distribution, in this case the workers get far below their contribution, even when adjusting for the capitalist's risk. The meager payment ensures the workers will never have options. The theoretical economic model for this case is the dictator game[1]. In the dictator game,…

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I myself lean towards the free market side of this example, and don't necessarily agree with the idea that exploitation is taking advantage of another's lack of options. Take the dictator's game. The flaw with your model is that it's not iterated. A more realistic dictator's game would be iterated (repeated). In which case over time a poor party can force the rich party to give it a highe…

>Okay, thanks for clarifying. I myself lean towards the free market side of this example, and don't necessarily agree with the idea that exploitation is taking advantage of another's lack of options.

You think of exploitation as just something like slavery.

But slavery is too an example of taking advantage of another's lack of options.

In slavery it is: "You either do this or I kill you".

Which is not that different from "You either do this, or you and your family die of hunger / end up homeless".

You either have options -- so you get to pick and you're not exploited.

Or you don't have options, in which case, you either get a fair price for your work (compared to what value your employer gets out of it), or you are exploited.

Sharecropping, the post-slavery solution to keep poor blacks and whites in their place, was also exploitation, based on their lack of options.

Re: The Book of Graham

#123

Post by calvins » Sat, Feb 15, 2014, 6:55 AM UTC

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #117

pyrrhotech wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's my own superego unable to understand experiences outside of my own mind, but I think you either didn't get enough money or haven't learned how to transmute it into happiness. Money is freedom and freedom is happiness. It's that simple. If money doesn't make you happy, nothing will. If you have enough money, you can do anything you want. If you don't have enough money, you can't do anything you want. If y…

> If you have enough money, you can do anything you want. Man lives not by bread alone. Only a simple hedonist is going to find contentedness through a pallet of cash.

Many of the things we all find contentedness through can be purchased with cash. I for one would love to take a multi-year round-the-world trip with my partner, or own a house and a grand piano I could use without having to worry about neighbors. Does that make me a materialistic hedonist?

Re: The Book of Graham

#124

Post by aelaguiz » Sat, Feb 15, 2014, 8:56 PM UTC

pyrrhotech wrote: post #116

aelaguiz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that doesn't matter to me. Maybe others experience wealth differently but it made substantially no difference to my day to day happiness (once the newness of the money had worn off) - but working on a project I feel strongly about makes a strong and lasting difference.

Perhaps it's my own superego unable to understand experiences outside of my own mind, but I think you either didn't get enough money or haven't learned how to transmute it into happiness. Money is freedom and freedom is happiness. It's that simple. If money doesn't make you happy, nothing will. If you have enough money, you can do anything you want. If you don't have enough money, you can't do anything you want. If y…

The thing that makes me happy is sitting in a room with a few people I really like and building something I'm interested in. We already all live in nice houses and have the computers we want. We can eat wherever we'd like. If I want to take a vacation I can afford it.

How will having more money make it so I can better sit in a room with a few people I like and build stuff?

I mean it's not like being wealthier will make my Netflix have cooler stuff in it.

Re: The Book of Graham

#125

Post by argonaut » Sun, Feb 16, 2014, 5:05 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #122

argonaut wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I myself lean towards the free market side of this example, and don't necessarily agree with the idea that exploitation is taking advantage of another's lack of options. Take the dictator's game. The flaw with your model is that it's not iterated. A more realistic dictator's game would be iterated (repeated). In which case over time a poor party can force the rich party to give it a highe…

> Okay, thanks for clarifying. I myself lean towards the free market side of this example, and don't necessarily agree with the idea that exploitation is taking advantage of another's lack of options. You think of exploitation as just something like slavery. But slavery is too an example of taking advantage of another's lack of options. In slavery it is: "You either do this or I kill you". Which is not that different…

Except that you're actively doing the killing. Not letting someone die of hunger is not something anyone has an obligation to do.