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Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

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Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful, now. It looks like you're saying that calling something stupid bullshit is being an asshole. Some of us happen to believe that stupid bullshit is a real thing and that there are circumstances where calling something stupid bullshit may be entirely fair and justified. Try defending against the accusation itself instead of taking the stance that the accusation is always automatically invalid.

>It looks like you're saying that calling something stupid bullshit is being an asshole. No, being an asshole while calling something bullshit is being an asshole. A ^ B |- A. You can say something's bullshit without ridiculing people. Zed's problem isn't that he says unpopular things, it's that he seems to try to be as rude as possible in saying them. Saying something's bullshit isn't necessarily rude. Saying someth…

> "Saying something's bullshit and anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot|hypocrite|moron|asshole is."

The truth of that statement still depends on what the issue is. There are some beliefs you really do have to be stupid or disingenuous to espouse.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you rarely see libertarians here in Canada. For all its warts, our government mostly works: healthcare is pretty good, education is pretty good, regulations are generally not onerous, taxes are pretty low, crime is pretty low, etc. It's a solid B- government, and that seems to apply regardless of who's in power. So while you get disagreements on what government should or should not do, you don't really get disagr…

> And you rarely see libertarians here in Canada. I think that is because your provinces have actual positive jurisdictions of sovereignty, as opposed to the very weak protections our states have. > For all its warts, our government mostly works: healthcare is pretty good, education is pretty good, regulations are generally not onerous, taxes are pretty low, crime is pretty low, etc. For example, there is no "Canadia…

Provinces have far less power than states do, at least on paper. The reason education and healthcare is run at the provincial level is because the federal government decided to do it that way as a cost-saving measure. If they decided to change it back, the provinces would just have to suck it up and go along for the ride. Just look at equalization payments for an indication of how little power provinces have.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps citing a television show is not the most credible evidence one can bring to a discussion? Edit (since I cannot reply directly, apparently): why is it not credible? Can I start citing the X-Files or Star Trek? How about a broadcast of the Nancy Grace show?

> (since I cannot reply directly, apparently) HN hides these links to prevent very quick back-and-forth. Either wait a few minutes or click the 'link' link.

Thank you. I wasn't aware of that.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libertarians, however, seem mongst the quickest to head straight to the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Because we actually believe in something. Most conservatives and liberals don't have a consistent moral philosophy so there is no point debating them.

I've been trying to narrow in on that consistent moral philosophy for various ism's. I'm not sure I've gotten very close in most cases except the general concept of tribalism. Every ism seems to be willing to bend the rules if it is perceived to be the common wisdom of the tribe.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#535
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't do anything to answer my question about where libertarians stand on the question. I still don't get what a civilization without a "monopoly on laws and law enforcement" would look like.

"Laws" and "law enforcement" are just products, similar to any other service. If you can imagine what a civilization without a monopoly on food production, or house cleaning services, or medical services would look like, you should be able to imagine with a civilization without a monopoly on laws and law enforcement would look like. Most people believe that monopolies are not economically efficient for producing "ord…

"Laws" and "law enforcement" are just products, similar to any other service

That seems like a rather extraordinary claim with no supporting evidence other than maybe a brief period of time in Iceland.

If nothing else, those things are different from other products and services in that the demand is particularly inelastic and is tied up with human emotions in a way that doesn't really fit the naive "rational actor" model.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#536
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Laws" and "law enforcement" are just products, similar to any other service. If you can imagine what a civilization without a monopoly on food production, or house cleaning services, or medical services would look like, you should be able to imagine with a civilization without a monopoly on laws and law enforcement would look like. Most people believe that monopolies are not economically efficient for producing "ord…

"Laws" and "law enforcement" are just products, similar to any other service That seems like a rather extraordinary claim with no supporting evidence other than maybe a brief period of time in Iceland. If nothing else, those things are different from other products and services in that the demand is particularly inelastic and is tied up with human emotions in a way that doesn't really fit the naive "rational actor" m…

Why is that an extraordinary claim? They certainly are products. They're things that people want that other people produce. That's not really a statement about history that I would support by giving historical examples. It's simply a plain description of reality.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#537
post #380
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberals and conservatives won't agree on their defintions either. Communism has been routinely redefined throughout history. A philosophy of society is always a malleable nebulous concept.

Yes, what's most important is that you're for freedom, whatever that means. Libertarianism = Freedom. Communism = Freedom. Liberals = Freedom. Conservatives = Freedom. North Korea = Freedom. USA = Freedom. Seriously what country isn't free? Who is against freedom?

Libertarians and communists are probably the only ones on this list who have actually made any attempts to define "freedom" in a consistent and location-independent way?

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#539
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Laws" and "law enforcement" are just products, similar to any other service. If you can imagine what a civilization without a monopoly on food production, or house cleaning services, or medical services would look like, you should be able to imagine with a civilization without a monopoly on laws and law enforcement would look like. Most people believe that monopolies are not economically efficient for producing "ord…

I don't think laws and law enforcement are products in this regard. There are, after all, certain functional requirements for people to live together in cities and two of these appear to be some sense of private property and protection against violent crime. Another is management of infrastructure. These three things regulate the space between households. The government, however defined, must monopolize them because…

> There are, after all, certain functional requirements for people to live together in cities and two of these appear to be some sense of private property and protection against violent crime. Another is management of infrastructure.

Another is food, which most people agree is more efficiently produced by a competitive market than by central planning.

> The government, however defined, must monopolize them because otherwise you give tremendous power to the hands of private corporations. At least with a government there are political constraints that there are not with a corporation.

And yet, what I'm saying is precisely that private enterprises would lead to a better society not just for me, but for the vast majority of people as judged by their own personal subjective preferences. That includes most people who oppose by suggestions.

> I haven't yet met a libertarian who thought that murder should be legal absent a contract to the contrary

I haven't yet met a person who thought that. So why exactly do we need government to "make murder illegal"?

> nor have I yet met one that thought that big business should be able to control all roads and exclude whoever they want from travelling.

Depends what you mean by this. I personally believe that if you own a road, you should be able to exclude others from using it. A polycentric legal system, like any other system, would lead to a convention or set of conventions for what constitutes "property rights" that is economically efficient.

> So the argument is over a decentralized government model vs a heavily centralized government model.

This obviously comes down to your definition of "government." In the broadest dictionary sense of the word, yes, it could refer simply to any mechanism that arranges the affairs of a group of people. When I use it, I intend to imply that I am talking about states, namely nation states and the subdivisions thereof. Lots of anti-state libertarians have offered detailed definitions of what constitutes government in this context. Murray Rothbard defined the state as an organization that claims monopoly legal authority over a region and funds itself at least partially through (compulsory) taxation. I prefer David Friedman's more enlightening definition. He defines a state or government as an organization which most individuals in a region exempt from their normal perception of personal "rights." If a random person attempts to forcefully take money from you, chances are you will fight to resist, or at least consider it a wrongdoing, and most of the rest of society would be on your side (assuming the evidence is conclusive). But when government forcefully takes money from you, you probably won't be very upset, and probably won't resist even if you are upset. And the majority of society will not consider this a misjustice.

> After all, does it really matter whether a city is formally private or public sector?

I think it does, because the "private sector" (assuming you mean a competitive market) will be more economically efficient.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#540
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which of those countries doesn't have a government? And which of those countries has a society like what I'm advocating? Note that I'm not simply advocating that we have anything so long as it's not government. I'm advocating a specific alternative to government.

Any examples of countries worth moving to that have these alternatives? Or is this really just a pipe dream?

Do you have any examples of countries where there is no murder? Would you prefer to live in a country with no murder?

You're claiming that no improvements can be made to a society that haven't already been tried in some other society. This is an absurd claim.

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