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Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

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Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#521

Post by TeMPOraL »

jrockway wrote: post #413
TeMPOraL wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, he might be right here and there, but he's still being an assohle, and it's not the first time we see him acting as one (I'd wager it's his most recognizable trait). Being right and/or smart and/or recognized doesn't, and shouldn't, give one an excuse to be a dick.

I don't think he's being an asshole, he just has the gift of being able to phrase his opinion in a way that makes people that disagree with him feel really bad. It's not being an asshole to tell someone they're being stupid when they do something stupid. These guys just lost several million dollars via their illicit drug-trading website. They don't need a pat on the back from zedshaw.

> These guys just lost several million dollars via their illicit drug-trading website. They don't need a pat on the back from zedshaw.

I'd agree if he limited his mockery to those people, but his comments are full of broad generalizations and target also honest people with ideas different than zed's.

I don't even say I agree with those ideas, though I find the concept of crowdsourcing law worth serious exploring instead of dismissing outright (there are some serious people, like Robin Hanson, discussing this [0]). It's easy to laugh off things you don't understand.

To be honest, I'm yet to see a single case of a person who truly understands an idea and then proceeds to sneer. For me, seeing one laughing at other peoples' ideas is a clear sign that the person doesn't know shit.

[0] - http://hanson.gmu.edu/regprivlaw.html

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#522

Post by TeMPOraL »

zedshaw wrote: post #173
tolmasky wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a deep misunderstanding of libertarianism (which is your right of course). Libertarians don't necessarily not believe in laws, they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers. This is kind of the whole point. Its clear that in your world view "justice" is somehow inexorably tied to government, but there others that disagree (which leads to your confusion in thinking that because som…

"they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers" Ahahahahaah! That's the same as not having laws! And even then, what you're saying is they believe someone should bring this guy to justice...and then do nothing to him. Then it's not justice. You're killing me my friends. Just killing me here.

Zed, I'm sorry, but at this point your comment has jumped the shark. You're full of crap, that's all.

I'm yet to see a person who truly understands an idea and then proceeds to laugh it off just like that. For me, it's a good indicator that the person laughing doesn't know shit, and doesn't even try. It's easier to make people you disagree with feel bad about themselves than to actually engage with their arguments.

(note I'm not referring to the drug dealers who lost money, but to the off-hand dismissal of ideas many honest people hold)

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#523

Post by bodski »

zedshaw wrote: post #394
bodski wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck off Zed, its just people selling drugs man, get over it. Not everyone agrees with prohibition. Between you and Miguel Icaaza there's enough 'Bitcoin schadenfraude' to power a small town.

Actually, I am against prohibition too, and against most drug laws, and definitely against applying them disproportionately. I'm an advocate for drug abuse being treated as a medical condition, for the sale of hard drugs only by prescription, and for any laws to be applied the same to whites, blacks, and corporations alike. I'm against famous people getting rehab while poor people get life sentences for possession. I…

Good points, especially treating addiction as a medical condition.

There's a lot of folks on SR, or whichever is the latest online drug market, selling good quality and relatively safe soft drugs. They are able to earn reputation in a community allowing users to have a low risk way to obtain the drugs they would seek out regardless. This, to me, is a step in the right direction. Why would you be against this?

So the health concerns worry you. Have you ever considered the health effects the stress of a modern lifestyle on people, especially if they are poor. It's a tradeoff but I think there are definitely people (myself included) who get an overall health benefit from some drugs if it allows them to relax and escape their daily reality temporarily. All we have in our lives is our experiences ultimately.

I am convinced light use of Cannabis, Psilocybin and even Ketamine have all helped with my depression. Far more damaging to me were the SSRI anti-depressants my doctor seems so keen to hand out. I have never had the same difficulty stopping any of the 'illegal' drugs I use compared to coming off SSRI anti-depressants. Not to mention the horrible side effects of SSRIs when you are on them.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#524

Post by bodski »

bashcoder wrote: post #403
bodski wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck off Zed, its just people selling drugs man, get over it. Not everyone agrees with prohibition. Between you and Miguel Icaaza there's enough 'Bitcoin schadenfraude' to power a small town.

You don't see the hypocrisy of the "they broke the law and stole our money" outcry? I guess it's just people stealing money then, so they should get over that. Not everyone agrees with allowing people to keep their stuff.

Well, it's more of a 'they are breaking the rules of our community' outcry. Sure some may be crying out for law enforcement to get involved. I agree that those folk are being naive and/or hypocritical.

I think Bitcoin is a fantastic exercise in educating people about personal responsibility, and in particular responsibility within a community. The current structures that govern and police our societies don't look very stable right now (yes, even in western societies). Anything that teaches people (sometimes harsh) lessons on personal and community responsibility is a good thing and necessary to soften the blow of the gradual (or sudden?) collapse of industrial societies.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#525

Post by xenophanes »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #508
xenophanes wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And is there such thing as "Stalinist Trotskyists"? Also that some similar groups dislike each other does not imply that all groups which dislike each other are similar.

The point is that people on the radical fringe of economic thought are prone to splitterism.

So you agree that Objectivism and libertarianism are split/separate/etc? You agree with me and disagree with the OP?

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#526

Post by anentropic »

zedshaw wrote: post #133

This is seriously the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time. Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest who run an illegal website devoted to the pure greed of cashing in on contraband, and this is what they write: "I’ve included transaction logs at the bottom of this message. Review the vendor’s dis…

LOL

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#527

Post by 3pt14159 »

rodgerd wrote: post #409
zanny wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberals and conservatives won't agree on their defintions either. Communism has been routinely redefined throughout history. A philosophy of society is always a malleable nebulous concept.

Libertarians, however, seem mongst the quickest to head straight to the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Because we actually believe in something. Most conservatives and liberals don't have a consistent moral philosophy so there is no point debating them.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#528

Post by roymurdock »

gwern wrote: post #450
roymurdock wrote: post #239

Sounds like Defcon got the excuse he needed to line his pockets with all of the Silk Road 2 money. I don't run a marketplace, but I would assume that an alarm protocol would be implemented and triggered when thousands of bitcoins start to drain out of "hot storage". Exploiting the transaction malleability bug wouldn't net you 4,500 BTC at once. It would take a lot of requests of broken transactions to drain the entir…

> I think the moral of this story is to not open an account with an anonymous exchange. Instead, open an account with a marketplace backed by some high-profile VC's who have some skin in the game. You can bet that Andreesen isn't going to be careless and ignorant enough to let the same thing happen to Coinbase. Great. Call me when Andreesen funds a black-market for highly illegal drugs.

I think people are less worried about finding a source for illegal drugs, and more worried about finding a secure marketplace where they can trust the administration and exchange their funds securely.

Theoretically, I would be relatively bummed out if my favorite drug dealer was arrested. Then I would get over it and find a new dealer.

I would be livid if my drug dealer took my money, pointed a gun at my head, then got in his car and drove away, all the while claiming that he wasn't robbing me and that he had always had my best intentions at heart.

So I'm not so concerned about a new marketplace popping up. The market demands drugs, and it will have them (SR3?). My point was simple: if you don't want to lose your money, don't store your money in an anonymous, drug-dealing marketplace. I'm not sure why this warranted such a sarcastic response?

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#529

Post by bashcoder »

bodski wrote: post #524
bashcoder wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see the hypocrisy of the "they broke the law and stole our money" outcry? I guess it's just people stealing money then, so they should get over that. Not everyone agrees with allowing people to keep their stuff.

Well, it's more of a 'they are breaking the rules of our community' outcry. Sure some may be crying out for law enforcement to get involved. I agree that those folk are being naive and/or hypocritical. I think Bitcoin is a fantastic exercise in educating people about personal responsibility, and in particular responsibility within a community. The current structures that govern and police our societies don't look ver…

I'm not a bitcoin culture expert, but I agree that it is a very interesting experiment and exercise. I too am watching all of this with great interest and wonder what kind of culture will emerge.

On the other hand, I have known more than my fair share of drug dealers. Almost without exception, they are just as likely to steal as deal. And every dealer I know has gotten robbed on the street at some point, if not regularly. The drug supply chain is lawless and rough, and not much of a community model. So to see some of these same dynamics playing out online isn't actually that surprising to me.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#530

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

xenophanes wrote: post #525
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that people on the radical fringe of economic thought are prone to splitterism.

So you agree that Objectivism and libertarianism are split/separate/etc? You agree with me and disagree with the OP?

I think all objectivists are libertarians, but not all libertarians are objectivists.
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