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America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

economist.com

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Re: America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

#51

Post by bitcuration »

pcurve wrote: post #41
MereInterest wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's when I understood that it is a choice by business owners and business managers to only hire pre-trained workers. It is a choice to run at half staff while waiting for a "perfect fit". I would say that it is entirely the prisoner's dilemma. It benefits everyone to have a supply of well-trained workers. However, if you can skimp on training by hiring workers that other companies have trained, you can an advanta…

Yep, once company trains you thoroughly, they have to spend even more money retaining you because you may jump ship. Good old days of lifetime employment where loyalty was two-way street had its benefits. Because of this mutual distrust, it's too hard to retain good employees these days. Irony is that, most good employees are completely wasted in corporate environment anyway.

The new era is becoming more entrepreneur encouraged. Totally agree good employee in corporate is a completely waste of life. People just need time to transition their mind from good old 70's. There is no more evil Soviet Union, the middle class is a merit on your own, a right than a welfare. Those grown up from last century aren't used to it but will be soon.

Re: America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

#52

Post by beedogs »

jared314 wrote: post #6
ChuckFrank wrote: post #2

Contrary to the millennial gripes and the 'trophy kids' syndrome, I believe that there's a generation of highly specialized and highly educated people out there whose expertise is going to waste because they are not getting the first important steps to start working on the job. The work gap that most of these people are going to experience is going to have irreparable harm to the product, with regards to all the pape…

A few years ago, I believed outsourcing was the main culprit removing the bottom rungs on the career ladder. That was until someone, older than I was, told me: "A career is not a right." That's when I understood that it is a choice by business owners and business managers to only hire pre-trained workers. It is a choice to run at half staff while waiting for a "perfect fit". Despite the large number of skilled, and n…

This is why, although I don't do it, I don't have a problem with folks lying on their resume in order to be that perfect fit. If you can fool an employer into hiring you (and can fake it pretty well once you're in the building) you deserve that career.

Re: America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

#53

Post by busterarm »

twoodfin wrote: post #47
busterarm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"indiscriminate killing" means both the successful and the unsuccessful. You're confusing a lot of things here. I mention this in another comment but in no way is anything that I'm saying targeted specifically at people involved in tech startups, in fact, despite how I think many would think of themselves they've all got the same lot as the rest of us. tl;dr: tech entrepreneurs are not the 1%.

tl;dr: tech entrepreneurs are not the 1%. Again, how do you expect the "class war" for which you have a "boner" to distinguish between entrepreneurs and "rent seekers"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

It's pretty obvious what they do and how they do it. If you think entrepreneurs have a lot of overlap here, I'd hate to think of what you consider being successful in business, because you'd have to either not be looking or be a sociopath. I already mentioned patent trolls as an obvious example of rent-seeking behavior here.

You're fixated on the mechanics of how a class war happens, which isn't even worth discussing because that's predicting the unknowable. Maybe you seem to think it only happens in the way you picture it in your head?

When you have a society that denies quality health care to the majority of its citizens, has a militaristic police force and imprisons large and biased proportions of its population, YOU ALREADY HAVE CLASS WAR. It's happening right now and you don't even realize it.

Re: America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

#54

Post by FD3SA »

michaelochurch wrote: post #48
joe_the_user wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it frustrating that your argument, as mean-spirited as it is fallacious, can get traction just by being both those things simultaneously. The fall of the USSR initiated a period of privation that involved a significant population decrease through starvation. This event did nothing to improve their economy, indeed it hobbled it. You are correct that some wars have helped economies improve. Protip: it's the mass…

You are correct that some wars have helped economies improve. Protip: it's the massive economic reorganization rather than the death that does that. War creates demand for labor which means that people doing the work have leverage. (See: my note about dividing the 1000 richest people artificially into "Red" and "Blue" teams and putting them into war.) Without it, the world seems to be run by yes-men and visionless co…

Absolutely right. War demands men of merit at the helm. When the risks of incompetence include utter annihilation, parasites are routed rapidly.

In addition, war demands investment in the most rational enterprises at the state level. The biggest of which? Science and technology (Manhattan, Apollo, etc.). There is no time or resources for consumerism and advertising. The civilization that is the most efficient, and invests most rationally, will win. Compare this with modern publicly funded research, which is receiving cut after cut and appears doomed to stagnation and decline.

Contrast a president like Eisenhower with Obama based on political platform, policies enacted, and individual merit. Absolute night and day, and a concise yet poignant case study on the decline of American society.

Re: America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

#55

Post by renovaatio »

michaelochurch wrote: post #9
busterarm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be the longest period in a while where some fast-spreading illness hasn't killed large numbers of people across multiple demographics. Usually wars and sicknesses create a significant need to train new workers, but wars on their own aren't doing enough anymore and would only harm the demographics that are suffering anyway. It's totally horrible for me to say this but a deadly flu pandemic is needed for the…

It's totally horrible for me to say this but a deadly flu pandemic is needed for the health of our economy. If it comes to that, I prefer a French Revolution style class war. Fewer deaths, more gain for each death and in total, thus more efficient. Between 10 million deaths, no correlation between dying and deserving it, and chaos and no reason to believe in political progress, versus 200,000 deaths, a high correlati…

The problem is that our economic structure relies on continuous growth. As opposed to moste living systems, who reach a point of equilibrium somewhere.

You know what living entity also relies on continuous growth? Cancer. We're cancer.

Re: America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

#56

Post by busterarm »

FD3SA wrote: post #54
michaelochurch wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct that some wars have helped economies improve. Protip: it's the massive economic reorganization rather than the death that does that. War creates demand for labor which means that people doing the work have leverage. (See: my note about dividing the 1000 richest people artificially into "Red" and "Blue" teams and putting them into war.) Without it, the world seems to be run by yes-men and visionless co…

Absolutely right. War demands men of merit at the helm. When the risks of incompetence include utter annihilation, parasites are routed rapidly. In addition, war demands investment in the most rational enterprises at the state level. The biggest of which? Science and technology (Manhattan, Apollo, etc.). There is no time or resources for consumerism and advertising. The civilization that is the most efficient, and in…

Man, I love Eisenhower. That guy was such a boss. Easily in my top three POTUS list.

Re: America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

#57

Post by magicalist »

busterarm wrote: post #50
magicalist wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Between 10 million deaths, no correlation between dying and deserving it, and chaos and no reason to believe in political progress, versus 200,000 deaths, a high correlation between dying and deserving it (i.e. higher death rates among the current elite) and the likely deposition of the corporate upper class, I know which one I'd pick. While the most famous people executed during the French Revolution were from the…

They'd be there in larger numbers too with a pandemic due to availability of health care and also the closer proximity that lower-class people are forced to live near each other. Lower-classes get fucked in greater numbers when there is any social turmoil. They are a proportionately larger group of people. I don't have any numbers to look at but I think it's pretty likely that more than 60% of the French population d…

> Anyway, the long-term social effect was (from where I'm sitting) positive

The positive social effects of...the Reign of Terror? You might as well throw in the Holodomor, the Khmer Rouge's Killing Fields, The Great Leap Forward, etc etc etc as everything's much better now than it was then. Post hoc ergo propter hoc, amirite?

Re: America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

#58

Post by busterarm »

magicalist wrote: post #57
busterarm wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd be there in larger numbers too with a pandemic due to availability of health care and also the closer proximity that lower-class people are forced to live near each other. Lower-classes get fucked in greater numbers when there is any social turmoil. They are a proportionately larger group of people. I don't have any numbers to look at but I think it's pretty likely that more than 60% of the French population d…

> Anyway, the long-term social effect was (from where I'm sitting) positive The positive social effects of...the Reign of Terror? You might as well throw in the Holodomor, the Khmer Rouge's Killing Fields, The Great Leap Forward, etc etc etc as everything's much better now than it was then. Post hoc ergo propter hoc, amirite?

The entire modern era of our civilization lies in the shadow of the French Revolution. It accelerated the rise of republics and democracies and the spread of every modern political ideology of today. 'Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen' is not only a fundamental document of the Revolution but also the first (Western?) document to define all rights of men to be universal; valid at all times and in every place and pertaining to human nature itself.

I think that's pretty damned positive.

Re: America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

#59

Post by magicalist »

busterarm wrote: post #58
magicalist wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway, the long-term social effect was (from where I'm sitting) positive The positive social effects of...the Reign of Terror? You might as well throw in the Holodomor, the Khmer Rouge's Killing Fields, The Great Leap Forward, etc etc etc as everything's much better now than it was then. Post hoc ergo propter hoc, amirite?

The entire modern era of our civilization lies in the shadow of the French Revolution. It accelerated the rise of republics and democracies and the spread of every modern political ideology of today. 'Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen' is not only a fundamental document of the Revolution but also the first (Western?) document to define all rights of men to be universal; valid at all times and in every p…

> Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen' is not only a fundamental document of the Revolution but also the first (Western?) document to define all rights of men to be universal

And it was published four years before the executions started in ernest. Even if it hadn't been: all revolutions cause birthing pains, but it is fallacious to argue the converse.

Re: America’s labour market has suffered permanent harm

#60

Post by patrickg_zill »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #39
patrickg_zill wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trolling or just woefully underinformed to be throwing around the words "conspiracy site"? The computations were changed in a major way during the Clinton administration . http://www.bls.gov/mlr/1995/10/art3full.pdf

Read your link. The definition of unemployment didn't change. They just stopped calculating u3 and u4 and relabeled u5 to u3.

Try looking at the bottom of page 25 (as marked in the PDF), under the heading APPENDIX.

The CPS, which the unemployment stats use, was redesigned in 1994; the last time it was changed was 1967.

If I really wanted to debate with you I would point out the birth/death rate adjustments... but you are acting rather trollish. plonk

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