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Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

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Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how me pointing out the stupidity and bullshit of a group of criminals makes me an asshole... But a guy who has actually lost people's money, put them at risk of reprisal from drug dealers, helped people (potentially young people) commit major crimes, enabled future addicts, and potentially is lying about the security flaw to steal all this money while spouting hypocritical contradictory statements...is a…

It's the condescending way you write that makes you seem like an asshole... i.e saying "Hahahahah" all the time - I don't particularly disagree with your points but the insulting tone is unnecessary, don't you think?

First off, only my mother gets to tell me to "watch my tone". Random jackoffs online can go fuck themselves if they think they've earned my respect by default, especially if those same jackoffs use political rhetoric to harm and steal from others.

My tone is simply a reaction to the tone of arrogance and superiority most objectivists and commenters take. If you don't want to be ridiculed, then don't write like a arrogant douchebag with zero self-awareness. Those kinds of people are due a large dose of insulting and "tone".

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is seriously the most hilarious response to a hacker news thread i have seen in a long time. it's got it all; > Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians wild conjecture? you bet. > who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest please, tell me, what else do they think? perhaps next you can tell me what i think, i'd love to hear it. > We need the gov…

Haha, Ted Bundy? The ultimate strawman slippery slope argument! Oh so good, all your defenses do nothing but point out the deeper contradictions in the statements. Seriously go back and read your replies to my replies. They're even funnier.

You're embarrassing yourself all over this thread.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#383
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't answer my question. It's clear that essentially every society on Earth is organized by a government. I was asking if that has been a positive thing. Widespread does not imply positive.

If governed regions are worse, why aren't you living in one of the ungoverned ones? Where (roughly) do you live now, and where would you live if moving were free? Thanks to government, my landlord can't kick me out without due notice, big guys with weapons can't "protect" me for a fee, and I can travel for free wherever I want on well-maintained roads without paying arbitrary fees. If your point is that agriculture m…

> If governed regions are worse, why aren't you living in one of the ungoverned ones?

There are, practically speaking, no ungoverned areas. The ungoverned areas are either unsurvivable due to circumstances unrelated to the existence of governments (like the oceans and Antarctica), and the otherwise survivable areas that briefly don't have governments (like Somalia) are undesirable due not to a lack of government, but because of events which caused both undesirability and lack of government (like poverty or armed ethnic conflict). Of course, plenty of people have argued that Somalia actually improved during its period of "anarchy."

Of course, this line of argument is pretty silly. You could, following this same logic, ask where someone would like to move where murder does not occur. Again, the only places where murder does not occur are not survivable by humans, or are undesirable for other reasons (like living in an abandoned missile silo, or in solitary confinement). Yet I would still claim that a society without murder would be a good thing.

> Thanks to government, my landlord can't kick me out without due notice

Why would a polycentric legal system not be able to provide a system where landlords can't kick tenants out without due notice?

> big guys with weapons can't "protect" me for a fee

That's not true. If you have enough money, big guys with guns can and will absolutely protect you. In fact, a lot of armed security and even what we could call "law enforcement" is done by privately contracted firms, because public police forces are ridiculously inefficient and ineffective. The same goes for arbitration and courts.

> and I can travel for free wherever I want on well-maintained roads without paying arbitrary fees.

Firstly, you do pay arbitrary fees for the roads you drive on, or at least the roads in your tax jurisdiction. In fact, the average person pays a lot more than what is economically efficient, because road funds inordinately subsidize industries like the freight industry. A usage fee is a far more economically efficient way to fund roads, and even government roads which also collect usage tolls tend to be a lot more well maintained. Secondly, the "who will build the roads" criticism of libertarianism is so exhausted that it has become a running joke for many libertarians. I can discuss it more if you like, or point you to several "libertarian FAQs" that should address most of your road- and infrastructure-related concerns.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#384
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

If he is ever found, criminal charges are the least of his worries. We are supposing that he stole lots of money from lots of different drug dealers.

Dime Bag Donny is hardly pablo escobar.

If it took the FBI 2 years to track him down, unless he fucked over the Zapatas exactly nothing will be done about this. But then again the Zapatas hide behind guns, not crypto currency.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#385
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has nothing to do with what has happened here and has been argued ad nauseam in other threads already. In short: the only aspect of bitcoin that may be considered an instance of the greater fool theory is the idea that it is a guarenteed investment. Obviously it is not, and this news has nothing to do with bitcoin as an investment vehicle anyway.

It has everything to do with this - the reason it was stolen is it is a crypto currency with no legitimacy or inherit value. It's not even a physical object, its more like a stock that is not regulated. If this were real currency or a stock, then there might be some regulation and stealing would be hard to pull off. This virtual currency's value is based on nothing. The whole hacked account thing has a lot in common…

What about the USD's value is based on something other than a mental construct shared by billions of people?

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#386

This is seriously the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time. Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest who run an illegal website devoted to the pure greed of cashing in on contraband, and this is what they write: "I’ve included transaction logs at the bottom of this message. Review the vendor’s dis…

Please stop flaming this thread. We understand -- everyone else is hilariously incoherent in their views

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#387
post #344
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been having conversations on this topic recently with a libertarian who grew up in the Soviet Union. Let's just say, when you've seen laws and law enforcers monopolized by villains, it becomes quite hard to accept that justice is whatever the government and courts say it should be. While I personally like law and order, when the choice is mob justice or a police state, there are some definite advantages to mob j…

Local libertarians (I am coming from Russia) are indeed mostly crazy to the point of advocating social Darwinism and Ayn-Randianism as a means to a perfect future of the humanity (??), I was quite puzzled to know the "original" libertarians are quite different from that :) Just my two commie copeikas...

In a nutshell, in every country there's some number of political positions that have a certain amount of broad political popularity, and these will be captured and represented by some set of political parties. ("Captured" is a bit more aggressive than I really want here, but it really is sort of like a territory thing; positions are malleable and can move between parties over time.) In anything with a voting system that matters, these parties will tend to grab the vast majority of the middle ground. (In the US, the two parties actually play the part of multiple parties in a proportional representation system as in much of Europe; the popular positions are still all covered, but you do get some really bizarre pairings under one tent sometimes.)

Consequently, the ones who are left out of the resulting parties are nearly by definition outliers. If one studies statistics, one of the things you'll learn is that in anything that has even a faint resemblance to a Gaussian distribution, the outliers are always more diverse than the main body. So on those fringes, you can always find some real nutcakes, along with a group of people whom you may merely find eccentric but forever bear the burden of being tarred by association with the loonies.

(It isn't necessarily the best plan to judge a fringe belief by an even more fringe set of loonies; for every stone you might be inclined to toss at the "other side", it's worth bearing in mind you've got a matched loonie on your side. Naturally, the loonies are the loudest, everywhere.)

I claim to be libertarian, but probably even more accurate would be call me a Classical Liberal - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism (Albeit not every bit of that; 18th century Classical Liberalism can not be simply blindly applied today, but I think it's closer than later philosophies, or, perhaps, ironically more appropriate for the 21st century than the philosophies of the 20th, which I think were too greatly influenced by the accidents of the Industrial Revolution, which fade as we continue through the Information Revolution.) Anyways, following through that on Wikipedia would probably give a helpful perspective on the general ideas, moreso than a loud loonie. There is an actual respectable intellectual tradition here, even if it is not the one currently in favor.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a deep misunderstanding of libertarianism (which is your right of course). Libertarians don't necessarily not believe in laws, they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers. This is kind of the whole point. Its clear that in your world view "justice" is somehow inexorably tied to government, but there others that disagree (which leads to your confusion in thinking that because som…

I honestly don't get this. If there isn't a monopoly on laws and law enforcement, does that mean that victims of crimes should be able to shop around to get the law enforcement agency that they want? Should the accused? Is there any historical precedent for anything like this actually working?

You could just move to another country and you'd be subject to their law. And that's probably because the idea of nationalism became important in the 18th century.

Sure there are universal human rights, but that's still new and many countries don't honor them: minorities are often denied basic human rights, some countries still have the death penalty, etc.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#390
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take your pick of places to live without functioning governments. Most of them are probably uninhabited islands or starving regions in Africa, but it's up to you.

That doesn't answer my question. It's clear that essentially every society on Earth is organized by a government. I was asking if that has been a positive thing. Widespread does not imply positive.

I think your question is overly broad, there were and are many types of government and they all had different effects. I don't think it's even simple to answer if one government is a positive or negative.

Was the soviet union good? millions dead, censorship of other ideas, huge leaps forward in quality of life on some axis, killed more nazis than the allied forces, forced the usa to get to space -> which meant some of the technology people living in the ex-soviet union exists now, it's existence encouraged the granting of worker rights/higher pay through fear of similar upheaval.

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