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Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

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Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#361

Post by steveklabnik »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #282
brnstz wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mob justice is not law. For an illustration of this, check out the very first scene of the TV series Deadwood. There's a lynch mob outside the sheriff's office, and they want to kill the person in the jail. The sheriff fends them off so he can legally hang him instead. The creator originally wanted to do a series on ancient Rome, about the birthplace of civilization. The studio wanted a Western. He said, oh, perfect,…

Perhaps citing a television show is not the most credible evidence one can bring to a discussion? Edit (since I cannot reply directly, apparently): why is it not credible? Can I start citing the X-Files or Star Trek? How about a broadcast of the Nancy Grace show?

> (since I cannot reply directly, apparently)

HN hides these links to prevent very quick back-and-forth. Either wait a few minutes or click the 'link' link.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#362

Post by mpyne »

baddox wrote: post #341
mpyne wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, I know you're not in favor of tribes and warlords. My point is more that it is the effect you'd get. As far as checks and balances I think it would be fair to say they are not working exactly as originally constructed. But that doesn't mean they're not working well, and it doesn't even mean that the original Framers would necessarily disapprove. The government wasn't even 20…

> My point is more that it is the effect you'd get. And my point is that I disagree. :)

Fair enough. :)

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#363

Post by girvo »

mbillie1 wrote: post #91
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the law has very little to do with supporting freedom and peace these days.

That is very true, but there's still an enormous chasm for your average person between being mostly-law-abiding (I'm not counting things like jaywalking or going 5mph over the limit) and participating in drug sales, which could land you life in prison. Hell, I think drug laws are incredibly unjust in the US, and that the government is overstepping its bounds left and right. By no means should you infer from this that…

I'm an ex-heroin addict, and you'd be quite surprised. At least here in Australia, that particular "community" is quite anti-violence, at least at the purchasing/dealer level. Move up the ranks and then that will change, however.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#364

Post by 300bps »

zedshaw wrote: post #336
redthrowaway wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ahahahahaah!... You're killing me my friends. Just killing me here. You can make the same argument without being an ass about it.

It's funny how me pointing out the stupidity and bullshit of a group of criminals makes me an asshole... But a guy who has actually lost people's money, put them at risk of reprisal from drug dealers, helped people (potentially young people) commit major crimes, enabled future addicts, and potentially is lying about the security flaw to steal all this money while spouting hypocritical contradictory statements...is a…

There's no need for the tone you're taking.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#365

Post by steveklabnik »

mlvljr wrote: post #344
btilly wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been having conversations on this topic recently with a libertarian who grew up in the Soviet Union. Let's just say, when you've seen laws and law enforcers monopolized by villains, it becomes quite hard to accept that justice is whatever the government and courts say it should be. While I personally like law and order, when the choice is mob justice or a police state, there are some definite advantages to mob j…

Local libertarians (I am coming from Russia) are indeed mostly crazy to the point of advocating social Darwinism and Ayn-Randianism as a means to a perfect future of the humanity (??), I was quite puzzled to know the "original" libertarians are quite different from that :) Just my two commie copeikas...

"Original" libertarians were French anarchists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology

> The use of the word libertarian to describe a new set of political positions has been traced to the French cognate, libertaire, coined in a scathing letter French libertarian communist Joseph Déjacque wrote to mutualist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in 1857, castigating him for his sexist political views.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#366

Post by sabbatic13 »

foxhill wrote: post #204
zedshaw wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, Ted Bundy? The ultimate strawman slippery slope argument! Oh so good, all your defenses do nothing but point out the deeper contradictions in the statements. Seriously go back and read your replies to my replies. They're even funnier.

ah, we've gotten to the "i know you are, but what am i" stage already. well, i'm glad you made it to the ted bundy part, but i can only assume you read one out of every 8-10 words, as that last bit was about hypocrisy in general (and why it's pointless to claim someone is a hypocrite in order discredit someone's argument). in no way was a "slippery slope" argument invoked.

Well, in his defense, your Bundy and Armstrong examples are just awful, and the bit about whether X is moral or Y is moral is even worse. You've begged the question of what defines morality entirely and replaced a rational basis for evaluation with the assumption that most people you know would consider one thing "worse" than another.

Here's an equally worse argument. If I took a knife away from Ted Bundy, when I encountered him walking around a park at night, wouldn't that be immoral, because taking things that belong to other people is wrong? If I took a syringe of enhancement drugs away from Lance Armstrong, as we both prepared for a race, wouldn't that be immoral.

Your Bundy example implies that the only reason one would or would not kill someone is whether they listen to Ted Bundy. That's a ridiculous mockup. Personally, if Bundy begged me not to kill someone, I'd assume the person was his accomplice. As for Lance, cycling advice isn't moral advice, and it would be perfectly reasonable to refuse to have anything to do with someone, because you found them morally reprehensible. In fact, taking cycling lessons from Lance at this point would simply reinforce the notion that what he did was not seriously wrong and this make one complicit.

In any event, since you are bandying the word "morality" around, let me bring up the issue of "moral authority." If someone's moral authority is suspect, one should not, in general, look to them for moral guidance.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#367

Post by steveklabnik »

joyeuse6701 wrote: post #294
zedshaw wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers" Ahahahahaah! That's the same as not having laws! And even then, what you're saying is they believe someone should bring this guy to justice...and then do nothing to him. Then it's not justice. You're killing me my friends. Just killing me here.

Fools always laugh the hardest.

A witty saying proves nothing.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#368

Post by baddox »

arg01 wrote: post #332
baddox wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't speak for all "libertarians," but the way I envision it is that it's precisely like restaurants. In other words, anyone can start a restaurant anywhere they choose that offers any services they choose with any restrictions (geographical, etc.), and any individuals can choose whether to pay for any services that are made available to them. Certainly some restaurants will only be available in certain regions, e…

The problem is when it comes to force. I've read a couple of libertarian leaning books after having similar conversations on HN and they all seem to believe that a monopoly won't spring up on force due to market forces and people wisely deciding to pay someone else to stop a company getting to large. It just seems naive, one of the key premises of the free market is that those who do a job better (cost/quality) grow…

That's certainly a valid criticism, and one that advocates of polycentric legal systems think about a lot. It's pretty clearly that some parts of a "defense agency" would enjoy economies of scale, while others wouldn't. Purchasing weaponry would scale well, while providing local service "on the ground" (e.g. police, detectives, etc.) probably wouldn't. I wouldn't claim to be able to prove that a monopoly couldn't possibly arise, but I don't think anyone can prove that it would.

I haven't developed this thought fully, but I wonder why there are a lot of governments today, despite the fact that one or a few of the largest ones could easily conquer the rest, at least in traditional military conflicts. Why doesn't the US completely conquer and annex Mexico, for instance? The Texas national guard wouldn't have much trouble crippling the Mexican military. But this is only considering the parts that enjoy economies of scale, like weapons manufacturing.

Of course, a more rhetorical approach to this criticism is that even if it happens, you're basically left with a government.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#369

Post by RankingMember »

fredgrott wrote: post #307
zedshaw wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers" Ahahahahaah! That's the same as not having laws! And even then, what you're saying is they believe someone should bring this guy to justice...and then do nothing to him. Then it's not justice. You're killing me my friends. Just killing me here.

ah the Frank Zappa method.. for those that do not know the story.. Frank Zappa disarmed someone that tried to shoot him and than refused to call the cops

I think that's a Zappa myth. It's been told various ways, including yours, but also another in which he encourages the attacker to walk with the group Zappa's with to a lake, wherein they then throw their belongings into it, including the gun.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#370

Post by kpennell »

zedshaw wrote: post #133

This is seriously the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time. Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest who run an illegal website devoted to the pure greed of cashing in on contraband, and this is what they write: "I’ve included transaction logs at the bottom of this message. Review the vendor’s dis…

Great...Zed Shaw is here to bestow his wisdom.
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