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Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

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Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#71

Post by glasz »

jdreaver wrote: post #3

Take a look at the comments section if you want to see political tribalism at its best. > I thought Bush orchestrated the Patriot Act... who knew..? > Regardless of your opinion of the surveillance, you gotta see this as a cynical political move. Bet he wouldn't sue a Republican president. Isn't good enough to disagree with Obama - a candidate has to demonstrate outrage with him to gain cred with the base. Everything…

welcome to the false left-right paradigm. most people just don't realize that it's deliberately being used to have the sheep running in circles every 4 years. meanwhile, there's only one political agenda on all sides.

but it's ok. go back to sleep.

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#72

Post by twoodfin »

diminoten wrote: post #16
jdreaver wrote: post #3

Take a look at the comments section if you want to see political tribalism at its best. > I thought Bush orchestrated the Patriot Act... who knew..? > Regardless of your opinion of the surveillance, you gotta see this as a cynical political move. Bet he wouldn't sue a Republican president. Isn't good enough to disagree with Obama - a candidate has to demonstrate outrage with him to gain cred with the base. Everything…

This is right vs. left. He wouldn't have done this to a Republican president, do you think he, Rand Paul, would have? Do you know much about Rand Paul? The man's entire political career is based on acting the partisan part. Like it or not, everything literally is partisan politics. No issue in the US rises above partisanship. That's the system we live in, you'll just have to accept that or attempt to change it direct…

He wouldn't have done this to a Republican president, do you think he, Rand Paul, would have? Do you know much about Rand Paul? The man's entire political career is based on acting the partisan part.

I am not a big Rand Paul fan, but I'm curious how you arrived at this conclusion. ISTM that he'd be as almost as much of a pain-in-the-ass to a Republican president from the less-libertarian/isolationist/goldbug wing of the party. Look at the spats he's had with Christie, at a start.

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#73

Post by twoodfin »

zacinbusiness wrote: post #28

I dislike politics in general because, really, it's all just a giant reality tv show. I lost faith when I was in high school, actually, because President Bush stood on national television and said that they couldn't find any weapons in Afghanistan and that was proof that they were there. And nobody, or at least nobody that I had exposure to, thought that was the stupidest thing they had ever heard. Since then, I've s…

I lost faith when I was in high school, actually, because President Bush stood on national television and said that they couldn't find any weapons in Afghanistan and that was proof that they were there.

Afghanistan? I assume you mean Iraq, and still I don't have any idea what speech of Bush's you're talking about. Can you help me out?

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#74

Post by twoodfin »

OnyeaboAduba wrote: post #54
dmix wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an extreme example. The alternative was conditional terms on expanding the debt limit, not defaulting on the debt. The bill passed without any additional restrictions on spending or changes to collection. The national debt is one of the biggest issues in the country right now and both parties are doing little to stop its expansion. As I said in my original comment, the fringe are the ones who are legitima…

If you owe your bank 10000 dollars and cant pay you have a problem if you owe your bank 1 million (or in our case 17 trillion)and cant pay they have a problem.

This analogy makes sense, but surely there's a debt/GDP ratio where it breaks down, no? How do we know what that is?

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#75

Post by cwisecarver »

x0054 wrote: post #47
jdreaver wrote: post #3

Take a look at the comments section if you want to see political tribalism at its best. > I thought Bush orchestrated the Patriot Act... who knew..? > Regardless of your opinion of the surveillance, you gotta see this as a cynical political move. Bet he wouldn't sue a Republican president. Isn't good enough to disagree with Obama - a candidate has to demonstrate outrage with him to gain cred with the base. Everything…

I would venture to guess that their are a lot of people in United States who believe in cutting government spending and fiscal responsibility but at the same time are socially liberal, and believe that people should be given opportunities and left alone to do what they will with their life and have sex and marry who ever they want (assuming consent and free will). Basically, something tells me that there are a lot of…

I totally agree. I am the guy you just described and I think of myself as a libertarian, before the Tea Party ruined the term. I'd like us to rein in spending and make lawmakers accountable for the money they vote to spend. At the same time I'm in favor of absolutely anyone doing absolutely anything they want so long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. Marry three desk lamps and a fishing pole if you want. How does that in any way affect me? Smoke some green tea leaves and a polyester blanket if it makes you happy. You burn down my apartment building and we're gonna have words. We don't need to be spending our blood and treasure to butt into other countries' affairs. I want the post-WWII days back where we didn't bother anyone that didn't bother us first.

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#76

Post by [deleted] »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #33
jdreaver wrote: post #3

Take a look at the comments section if you want to see political tribalism at its best. > I thought Bush orchestrated the Patriot Act... who knew..? > Regardless of your opinion of the surveillance, you gotta see this as a cynical political move. Bet he wouldn't sue a Republican president. Isn't good enough to disagree with Obama - a candidate has to demonstrate outrage with him to gain cred with the base. Everything…

That is the main problem I see with modern politics. It basically becomes "stereotypes of the left versus stereotypes of the right". A friend of a friend told me that he didn't see Gay marriage being outlawed in many states as a civil rights issue. I said I did. At this point, he asked "so you're a democrat?" I said "not really, I don't think of myself as associated with either party" and his answer was, no joke, "we…

[deleted]

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#77

Post by MartinCron »

Uhhrrr wrote: post #70
threeseed wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. There is nothing good about Rand. He is just cynically trying to stoke the libertarian base.

I think the desire to not be spied upon without warrant goes beyond the libertarian base.

So this is just broad-based empty pandering, then?

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#78

Post by ryguytilidie »

saraid216 wrote: post #52
rohunati wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the problem. We could be having deep, analytical discussions about the principles and philosophies that form the basis of our political convictions. Instead, our conversations are tainted by partisanship.

I'm sorry. We're busy training the next generation of knowledge workers. Things like "how to construct a cogent argument based upon a reasoned moral framework" or "how to distill essential points and deduce the original line of reasoning from a long-form essay" are artsy fartsy humanities unnecessary to getting a paycheck in the real world.

I can't even tell is people are being sarcastic anymore. :(

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#80

Post by nl »

jdreaver wrote: post #3

Take a look at the comments section if you want to see political tribalism at its best. > I thought Bush orchestrated the Patriot Act... who knew..? > Regardless of your opinion of the surveillance, you gotta see this as a cynical political move. Bet he wouldn't sue a Republican president. Isn't good enough to disagree with Obama - a candidate has to demonstrate outrage with him to gain cred with the base. Everything…

Right vs Left is a pretty boring way of looking at it, and I find different lens much more useful.

One surprising one is the power of the executive branch vs the other branches of government. Views on that don't fall along right vs left lines at all, and I think there are plenty in the Republican party (as well as the Democratic party) who will see this as an attempt to limit presidential power, and will be opposed to it on that ground.

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