European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

> That's how you can tell if newspapers are objective or not: you don't hear much about him in "balanced sources of information"... and you definitely don't hear about his banner or car.

I don't have French TV here (or French newspapers) but judging from the little I can find on the Internet about this character, I'm not convinced much of his activities is particularly newsworthy.

> Ah. I'm afraid this is solely a consequence of a lack of clarity on my part. I did not mean "shaky" as in "it would be morally dubious to convict a person", I meant "shaky" as in "it would legally difficult to convict a person".

I don't think so. I took your point to mean precisely what you intended, that is to say that it's of questionable legality to arrest someone simply because of an opinion not immediately exercised as a threat. Morality hadn't entered my mind.

Although now that you mention it, the morality of arresting someone for committing no more harmful an act than simply opening their mouth is another point of interest, but somewhat unrelated to this discussion. The state of affairs abroad in non-Western parts of the world is generally such that arrests made against such horrid perpetrators of free speech are commonplace. It gives me pause for thought to be thankful that we can have this conversation without immediate fear for our lives.

> I'm afraid my expertise is once lacking, but my understanding was that the most common motive for enjoying such comforts as provided by the US taxpayer is a conviction for drug possession.

While that is certainly true, in cases where a suspect is not found with such paraphernalia and they're especially noisome or talkative, you have other amusing tools at your disposal such as "resisting arrest." A skilled DA could contort those into drug charges, I'm sure, but my point was that it can take very little to wind up behind bars if you're in the wrong neighborhood, the wrong color, dressed the wrong way, or simply seen as a belligerent public nuisance.

I count my lucky stars that I live in a predominantly redneck area in the country where law enforcement generally knows all the townsfolk and is quite friendly and helpful.

> We are able to hold a pleasantly well-mannered exchange of view, in part due to the limitation on freedom of speech enforced both by moderation and downvoting. I'd argue that these limits make Hacker News a much more pleasant forum than, say, Youtube.

The hilarious part about this is that I don't completely agree, because we're 1) exercising our freedom of speech and 2) are sufficiently well-disciplined to hold a mutually respectful discourse (therefore, such limitations on speech are not in danger of being invoked). I suspect that if the HN audience were as broad and numerous as Youtube, we'd have the same problem here, so I'd argue that it's not so much limited free speech (or limitations placed thereon) as much as it is the advantage of a niche community that grant us such fortune. Someone on HN made a comment yesterday or the day before relating trends of the sort to the transformation of Reddit from a reasonable place to hold programming-related discussions to one of the biggest sources of cat pictures and memes on the Internet.

Though I do get the point you're raising, and I understand the use of it as an example, even if I am in disagreement. ;)

> The state of affairs abroad in non-Western parts of the world is generally such that arrests made against such horrid perpetrators of free speech are commonplace. It gives me pause for thought to be thankful that we can have this conversation without immediate fear for our lives.

Certainly, but in many of these countries, there is no need of a legal framework to disappear people, should they prove too troublesome. Laws are more guidelines than a strictly enforced system.

> While that is certainly true, in cases where a suspect is not found with such paraphernalia and they're especially noisome or talkative, you have other amusing tools at your disposal such as "resisting arrest." A skilled DA could contort those into drug charges, I'm sure, but my point was that it can take very little to wind up behind bars if you're in the wrong neighborhood, the wrong color, dressed the wrong way, or simply seen as a belligerent public nuisance.

I am fortunate to live in a place (Denmark) where the justice system does not take the punitive approach I regularly read about in the US. Though I haven't had interaction with the justice and law enforcement apparatus here, I do think it's a lot harder to end up in jail.

> I suspect that if the HN audience were as broad and numerous as Youtube, we'd have the same problem here, so I'd argue that it's not so much limited free speech (or limitations placed thereon) as much as it is the advantage of a niche community that grant us such fortune.

On the other hand, one of the reason the level of conversation has remained at this level is, I believe, by the enforcement of community standards, whereby newcomers are educated via downvotes, and abusers are hellbanned (though I think hellbanning is used too liberally - one lapse in judgment should not result in hellbanning). I agree that these limitations, being primarily enforced via community standards, are a more gentle way of handling the issue than a legal solution. As for reddit, you can still have good programming-related discussions in specific languages sub-reddits, but I don't know if r/programming has ever been good. But once again, if things have drifted the wrong way, it would be due to a lack of enforcement of standards of behaviour.

Not so much. China may put up their own firewall, yet people outside communicate just fine.

Also, mesh networks are pretty interesting: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/08/mesh-internet-pr...

In one of our courses on copyright law I heard this from the professor teaching that class :

"While yes, there are a lot of exceptions to contract law, I would like to state that only a fool signs a contract he thinks to be unenforceable"

Likewise I'd adopt the attitude of not letting laws pass no matter how unenforceable you think they are.