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European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

europa.eu

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Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#41

Wonder what they'll do it the US just says no.

*when

Exactly what they have been doing all along : complain about NSA spying. Wasn't that obvious from the press release ?

> In the wake of large-scale Internet surveillance and reduced trust in the internet, the European Commission today proposes a key reform to the way the Internet is managed and run. The proposal calls for more transparent, accountable and inclusive governance.

This is the justification. What do they want :

a) Control over IP address assignment and root DNS zones.

In other words the power to force anyone off the internet, and the power to revoke and/or change any domain name. They have long attempted, futile, to force thepiratebay off the internet, they even managed to force on of their hosters to kick them out once.

b) A strengthening of the global Internet Governance Forum

I read this as that they are aware that ICANN and IANA have no real power. The real power is in the hands of "tier 1" ISPs and they are locked into an open internet because there is no monopoly.

In other words : they want to eliminate the historical accident that lead to the current level of internet freedom.

c) "A review of conflicts between national laws or jurisdictions that will suggest possible remedies"

Now this one is REALLY important. I read this to mean they want to know how they can impose European law globally through technical means.

Now of course the EU commission itself does large-scale internet surveillance like the US does. With 3 important differences :

1) the cost is borne by the companies, not the EU. Everything is purely based on legal threats, and everybody is everybody's adversary. Meaning for actual crimes, (e.g. missing child) it's effectiveness is pretty much zero.

2) The US has a minimal level of legal oversight. Yes, we're talking secret courts, and top-secret subpaenas. I don't claim it's ideal, but it's better than the EU. Here's how it works in the EU. Firstly any of the executives of the member nations can decide to get information, plus a set of "blessed" EU agencies, like interpol.

Second as opposed to the US where at that point an order is delivered to the intercepting party, where it is evaluated by legal (hopefully, and usually), and then complied with, in the US an ISP is forced to provide interception capabilities on a government VLAN, where they enter the IP(s) they want intercepted and get a live traffic dump. It is actually a crime to check what the government is spying on.

3) Unlike in the US, this data has actually been used for large scale copyright blocking (google "French 3 strikes law" without legal recourse. Yes that's what they used their spying powers for.

Their objective is NOT to eliminate American spying on Europeans, but rather to "harmonize the regulations". In other words, they essentially want access to the NSA data about Americans without oversight. They want to make sure Americans can get disconnected when the MPAA claims 3 times they've downloaded an mp3. They want the ability to disconnect sites that violate EU expression laws (e.g. criticism of some royalty, various outlawed political factions like nazism and marxism, European libel law, trademark protection, ...), they want companies to have to ask them (meaning: pay them) for permission before offering something like Uber anywhere in Europe. They want tax income for international purchases.

Please keep what the UN and the EU are trying to do in mind next time you hear Europeans complain about NSA spying. The only thing the commission is upset about is that they can't spy on Americans the way (they think) Americans can spy on the EU. I'm saying "They think" because while the NSA does appear to have invasive spying, it seems extremely unlikely to me that it has anywhere near the claimed breath.

Please do NOT make the mistake to think this criticism anything but a concerted effort to kill the Internet. It is no different from the UN efforts to do the same [1]. This is the government that didn't so much as voice concern about the protest killings in Turkey.

[1] http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57444629-83/u.n-takeover-of...

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#42
Neelie Kroes is pretty much the only notable politician I'd trust to get this right. She's generally on the side of openness, transparency, competition, etc. You might have heard of her before in the base of the EU vs. Microsoft at the height of their monopoly.

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#43
post #31
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want governments to decide market winners and losers?! the fact that US companies are successful in Europe and Europeans are less so is partly due to the fact that they don't suffer from the backwards economic views you're currently displaying.

> the fact that US companies are successful in Europe and Europeans are less so is partly due to the fact that they don't suffer from the backwards economic views you're currently displaying. That's kinda harsh, there might be other reasons too[1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial_...

You're grasping at straws, so is the EU with its recent deluge of grandstanding gestures.

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#45
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't have a free speech clause in your constitutions that is above all else (neither does the UK) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Conv...

First it's not "above all else" seeing that it's "Article 10". Second, the second clause basically negates the first one in its entirety: 2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial…

It.. the order doesn't do anything..

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#46
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll put more and harsher regulations on American companies until they say yes. So I'm fine with whatever decision US makes, because I wouldn't mind if US companies (and the US government by proxy) wouldn't have a monopoly on EU users's data anymore.

You want governments to decide market winners and losers?! the fact that US companies are successful in Europe and Europeans are less so is partly due to the fact that they don't suffer from the backwards economic views you're currently displaying.

And partly because US companies often get secret assistance from their government.

The EU is better at creating a level playing field for open competition than the US.

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#47

Like the governance in England where the government decides what you should be watching? Perhaps they'll uses the French model and make it illegal to say anything critical about the French government. Or perhaps they'll adopt the Turkish attitude of jail time for those who speak the truth (if Turkey gets into the EU). How are they better than the American model of Uncle Sam lurking in the background of everyone's liv…

To be fair, the GCHQ mass surveillance in the UK arguably contravenes the European Commission charter on human rights, it's just that the UK gov/GCHQ aren't being held accountable.

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#48

Shame Neelie Kroes will be gone soon. She's been pushing some pretty good digital agendas with her position in the EU Commission. Hopefully her work won't be undone by whoever replaces her after the EU elections.

Let's hope that at least this part of her work referenced in this article dies the quick death it deserves.

She basically wants the global ability to impose EU laws, like worse copyright than the US, outlawing certain political views, and so on. And she wants to do this through technical means.

This can not be allowed to happen.

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#49
post #12

Governments have some control over the 'managing' and 'running' of the Internet, via TLD control, blocking, filtering, surveillance and legislation (e.g. the cookie law in EU), but even with all these in place, they're not really 'running' the Internet. If they did, there'd be no newsgroups, no torrents and no porn. They're seizing more control as time goes on, however: See the death of Net Neutrality in the US. I'd…

"Net neutrality" is the government "seizing more control". And not in some abstract way either, that is literally the goal. If it had actually "died" then that would have been a good thing, for those opposed to government control.

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#50

Like the governance in England where the government decides what you should be watching? Perhaps they'll uses the French model and make it illegal to say anything critical about the French government. Or perhaps they'll adopt the Turkish attitude of jail time for those who speak the truth (if Turkey gets into the EU). How are they better than the American model of Uncle Sam lurking in the background of everyone's liv…

"Government control of the internet, by any government, will inevitably lead to censorship." You may be right about that specific point. So what's the alternative? Corporate control? UN? If the net is governed by some form of institution, then that institution will need widespread legitimacy. I'm not saying that the current controllers have that, but a transfer of governance won't happen without it.

The UN in even worse, Russia, China, and Brazil are lobbying to get control over the Internet via ITU.

Current multi-stakeholder model has functioned diligently since the beginning, all these attempts to control the Internet by governments are politically motivated and with the aim of protecting legacy businesses and business models.

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