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Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

nature.com

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Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#201

Post by jakobsen »

tw268 wrote: post #159
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the popular strawman, not what (most) feminists believe. Feminism* teaches that women (and men) should be allowed to do whatever they want, whether that's stay home with the kids or run a corporation; as opposed to "traditional" values that dictate strictly gender-segregated life paths. Yes, I'm sure you can find feminists who think that blah blah blah whatever. Every group, movement, and party on Earth has fr…

Feminists give their girls toys typically associated with males and male professions. They seem mortified that their girls might want to be veterinarians, teachers, nurses, or mothers. Thereby, they devalue all the women who have acted like women in the past. No dolls for you, little girl. If you have a Barbie, it better be the one with a computer, web developer Barbie. How about you put down that tutu, and put on th…

Ok, stop the strawman bullshit already. What you describe is NOT feminism by any stretch of imagination.

You are describing the imposing of traditional roles based on gender (in your case, that of boys on a girl) which is exactly what feminism is against.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#202

Post by ZeroGravitas »

magicalist wrote: post #148
tw268 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racial differences in IQ are surprisingly robust between and within countries: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png These differences are mirrored by PISA and IQ scores between nations, SAT scores within nations, and etc. It's not hard to find corroborating evidence, but most people don't want to. http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/#Race-IQ It's hard to imagine that racism accounts for the…

Ugh. That map is terrible. I'll just quote wikipedia on this one: For 104 of the 185 nations, no studies were available. In those cases, the authors have used an estimated value by taking averages of the IQs of neighboring or comparable nations. For example, the authors arrived at a figure of 84 for El Salvador by averaging their calculations of 79 for Guatemala and 88 for Colombia. Including those estimated IQs, the…

More importantly it didn't even support the argument presented.

I guess what they intended was "African Americans have low IQ and so do Africans, ergo IQ is race-related". Yet African Americans have higher IQ than Africans, because they live in a more prosperous region, with less disease, more opportunities etc. so what does that tell us about IQ and race, and racial differences within countries? That maybe it's not all about race (and generally be on the lookout for stats that don't correct for factors like age/wealth/education/sex etc. I regularly see the "headline" figure being given uncorrected.)

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#203

Post by stcredzero »

abraininavat wrote: post #151
stcredzero wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When radical feminists start deliberately violating the free assembly and speech rights of other groups, what should the response of the majority feminists be?

To tell them to fuck off obviously. Can you point to specific instances of that happening?

Yes. Groups labeling themselves as feminists have sought to disrupt speakers, harass audience members, and basically stop gatherings by literally doing nothing more enlightening than yelling, "Shut up already!" Then this behavior is justified through ad homonym attacks on the speaker and audience.

You can find references to the earlier incident here: http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2013/03/08/a-mens-righ...

Also, 5 minutes into the speech described above, the fire alarm was pulled. To me, that's not speaking truth to power. That's violating the rights of others.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#204

Post by joombar »

ebfe wrote: post #167
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think there's a lot of people who wouldn't want a cross-dresser in their church, but would allow their sons to wear dresses?

Very few people who discourage their son from wearing a dress or taking up ballet do so in an attempt to enforce some grand imperative of how things should be. Rather, parents encourage certain traits because they believe that these are the traits that will equip their children with the best odds of success. And they're right- a boy who enjoys t-shirts and sports is at a tremendous social advantage over one prefers d…

"And they're right- a boy who enjoys t-shirts and sports is at a tremendous social advantage over one prefers dresses and ballet"

Perhaps in some very conservative societies.

Where I live I'm confident that a boy who enthusiastically engages in things which actually interest him is at a social advantage over boys who halfheartedly pretend to enjoy in whatever his parents think is normal.

Ballet, for sure. Maybe not dresses so much, at least not if he is doing the wearing, but having an interest in the clothes of his female peers certainly isn't any kind of social problem.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#205

Post by xamebax »

Citing the article: "These findings suggest that sex differences in gene expression in human brain relate and may even help explain well-recognised differences between men and women in disease incidence and presentation"

I think that's a useful study, since male and female organism react differently to some illnesses (check out sex differences in heart attack symptoms; here ignorance can literally be lethal).

What I do find funny is how quite some people here didn't bother to read the article and, upon seeing the title, so happily shout "FINALLY! DIE FEMINISM, DIE!" Sorry guys, wrong cue.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#206

Post by jarek-foksa »

mudil wrote: post #25
api wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kudos sir or ma'am. The same argument can be levied at racism. If you go back to the year 1000AD, it's obvious that Europeans are of vastly inferior stock. The Chinese and the Arabs were doing optics and stuff while the Europeans were basically playing in the dirt.

These things are completely different. Races are not different species. All people are the same: race does not matter. Sexual roles (the evolution of sexuality) is a completely different game. Ever thought why peacock has a tail but not peahen?

There could be great variance in intelligence, physical strength and aggressiveness between different races of the same species. For example Chihuahua, Doberman and Gray Wolf are races of the same species (Canis Lupus).

Of course humans were not a subject to strictly controlled selective breading like dogs, which means we have much fewer and less diverse races. Still, this is not something that should be completely ignored when trying to understand human behavior, both social and genetic traits matter.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#207

Post by demallien »

im3w1l wrote: post #59
demallien wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I didn't read the whole paper, just the abstract, but I would not be surprised to learn (based on previous studies) that the difference between men and women is smaller than the variance amongst men, or the variance amongst women, which is the case for nearly all non-primary sexual differences between men and women.

I (maybe mis)interpret your comment as saying that such a difference would be negligible. I disagree with that.

Think of it more as a Venn diagram with the two circles mostly overlapping. The radius of each circle will be bigger than the distance between the centres of the two circles... That's what I'm trying to say.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#208

Post by tw268 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #202
magicalist wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. That map is terrible. I'll just quote wikipedia on this one: For 104 of the 185 nations, no studies were available. In those cases, the authors have used an estimated value by taking averages of the IQs of neighboring or comparable nations. For example, the authors arrived at a figure of 84 for El Salvador by averaging their calculations of 79 for Guatemala and 88 for Colombia. Including those estimated IQs, the…

More importantly it didn't even support the argument presented. I guess what they intended was "African Americans have low IQ and so do Africans, ergo IQ is race-related". Yet African Americans have higher IQ than Africans, because they live in a more prosperous region, with less disease, more opportunities etc. so what does that tell us about IQ and race, and racial differences within countries? That maybe it's not…

A pretty big racial cognitive gap remains after adjusting for income, at least in America. Poor whites do better on cognitive tests than wealthy African Americans: http://glpiggy.net/2013/03/19/a-sociologist-looks-at-race-di...

African Americans are closer to European IQ levels than Africans, probably for several environmental and genetic reasons (better nutrition and schooling, ~25% European ancestry, etc)

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#209

Post by tw268 »

jakobsen wrote: post #201
tw268 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feminists give their girls toys typically associated with males and male professions. They seem mortified that their girls might want to be veterinarians, teachers, nurses, or mothers. Thereby, they devalue all the women who have acted like women in the past. No dolls for you, little girl. If you have a Barbie, it better be the one with a computer, web developer Barbie. How about you put down that tutu, and put on th…

Ok, stop the strawman bullshit already. What you describe is NOT feminism by any stretch of imagination. You are describing the imposing of traditional roles based on gender (in your case, that of boys on a girl) which is exactly what feminism is against.

What is feminism, if not the actions of feminists? I've seen this with my own eyes.

And the message of "Lean In" and the like is very much against the traditional female lifestyle. Prioritizing family over work is called "leaning out" and criticized.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#210

Post by jakobsen »

tw268 wrote: post #209
jakobsen wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, stop the strawman bullshit already. What you describe is NOT feminism by any stretch of imagination. You are describing the imposing of traditional roles based on gender (in your case, that of boys on a girl) which is exactly what feminism is against.

What is feminism, if not the actions of feminists? I've seen this with my own eyes. And the message of "Lean In" and the like is very much against the traditional female lifestyle. Prioritizing family over work is called "leaning out" and criticized.

I think it's wrong to define an ideology with hundreds of years of history by the actions of a random person you happen to know. Have you ever bothered to read Wollstonecraft? Simone de Beauvoir? even Naomi Wolf?? I encourage to do so and try to understand how feminists outside your circle think and behave.
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