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Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

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Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#141

Post by stcredzero »

cwaniak wrote: post #92
stcredzero wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll said! Also, we should be careful not to impose new restrictive social conditioning while eliminating the legacy conditioning. We will never entirely succeed, but we should try. (In the same way that one can't drive 100% straight but one should still make a good effort.) Once one's movement for justice has crossed the line, where there are apologetics for the abandonment of that effort, it is then creating injus…

Oh, you Marxists and your never ending quest to "eliminate" this or that from the society. The human genes haven't changed in the past 10,000 years. There is nothing you can change that will not dive back into the previous state with some social unrest or crisis.

Marxists..."eliminate" this or that from the society.

Ok, you're right. Things just haven't been as good since we Marxists have eliminated the doctrine of coverture and laws forbidding women to wear pants. (Fact. Look these up.)

A) I'm not Marxist. B) Society in the recent past was far from perfect. C) For your sake, I hope you're trolling and this isn't your best attempt at a reasoned response.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#142

Post by vezzy-fnord »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #138
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a tiny and unpopular subsection of the feminist movement. They're outnumbered a hundred to one by dudes who like to use them as strawmen. Hardly. Virtually every feminist scandal that attracts any attention whatsoever is about postmodern feminists and their oversensitive antics. The most popular feminist media, including Feministing and Jezebel, as well as articles on HuffPost and Slate, deal with postmoder…

Are you saying that the only feminists who count are the ones who cause scandals? I don't follow. Is this the same viewpoint that says that all Muslims are terrorists because those are the ones that make the news? (Because "Local Mosque-Goers Are Pleasant Neighbors" doesn't sell newspapers.)

No, absolutely not.

Obviously sensationalism sells. But the issue here is that your initial assertion of postmodern feminists being a "tiny and unpopular subsection" is a falsehood. As I said, most popular feminist publications today, both in mainstream journalism and in academia, belong to the former school.

This includes the feminism in the tech industry, the ideology of which is expressed in resources like the Geek Feminism Wiki, perhaps the crown of everything that is wrong with postmodernism summed up into a single anecdotal wiki with virtually no editorial standards beyond "Does it fit in the echo chamber?".

Then, let's face it: when postmodernists and radicals get all the attention, while all the supposed good and moderate feminists receive absolutely none... you have a problem. Your movement is being hijacked. You can underestimate the issue all you want, but the fact is it's the postmodernists who are actually making an influence.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#143

Post by PhasmaFelis »

tw268 wrote: post #134
stcredzero wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll said! Also, we should be careful not to impose new restrictive social conditioning while eliminating the legacy conditioning. We will never entirely succeed, but we should try. (In the same way that one can't drive 100% straight but one should still make a good effort.) Once one's movement for justice has crossed the line, where there are apologetics for the abandonment of that effort, it is then creating injus…

Feminists believe that traditional female behavior is bad/useless and needs to be eliminated. We tell girls that to be worthwhile, they need to live lives like men. I never understood this. If people are happy and productive in traditional roles, why do they need to be eliminated?

That's the popular strawman, not what (most) feminists believe. Feminism* teaches that women (and men) should be allowed to do whatever they want, whether that's stay home with the kids or run a corporation; as opposed to "traditional" values that dictate strictly gender-segregated life paths.

Yes, I'm sure you can find feminists who think that blah blah blah whatever. Every group, movement, and party on Earth has fringe members. Look at what the majority* believes, not what the furthest extremes say.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#144

Post by stcredzero »

magicalist wrote: post #139
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ignores the fact that "feminism" is not a coherent movement. To be a feminist, one must advocate for women's rights at a bare minimum. Everything else is completely up to the individual, and the fact is there exist lots of schools with contradictory opinions on major social issues. Sex-positive/sex-negative, pro-traditional femininity (lipstick feminist)/anti-traditional femininity, pro-trans/transphobic (TERF),…

> Bottom line is, let's stop treating feminism like some omnibenevolent movement for equal rights, and as if radicals are just "fringes who don't make a difference". This is not true anymore. Feminism got derailed decades ago. Go read any large feminist publication like Feministing or Jezebel, and it embraces the toxicity of postmodern feminism. This ignores the fact that "feminism" is not a coherent movement.

Actually, the gp comment's point is precisely that it's not a coherent movement. There are smaller factions within it, and some of these are coherent and harmful, IMO. (Same goes for MRM. Angry people sometimes do harm. Fancy that.)

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#145

Post by vezzy-fnord »

magicalist wrote: post #139
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ignores the fact that "feminism" is not a coherent movement. To be a feminist, one must advocate for women's rights at a bare minimum. Everything else is completely up to the individual, and the fact is there exist lots of schools with contradictory opinions on major social issues. Sex-positive/sex-negative, pro-traditional femininity (lipstick feminist)/anti-traditional femininity, pro-trans/transphobic (TERF),…

> Bottom line is, let's stop treating feminism like some omnibenevolent movement for equal rights, and as if radicals are just "fringes who don't make a difference". This is not true anymore. Feminism got derailed decades ago. Go read any large feminist publication like Feministing or Jezebel, and it embraces the toxicity of postmodern feminism. This ignores the fact that "feminism" is not a coherent movement.

It's not. That doesn't mean postmodern/radical isn't the most influential currently.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#146

Post by PhasmaFelis »

cwaniak wrote: post #92
stcredzero wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll said! Also, we should be careful not to impose new restrictive social conditioning while eliminating the legacy conditioning. We will never entirely succeed, but we should try. (In the same way that one can't drive 100% straight but one should still make a good effort.) Once one's movement for justice has crossed the line, where there are apologetics for the abandonment of that effort, it is then creating injus…

Oh, you Marxists and your never ending quest to "eliminate" this or that from the society. The human genes haven't changed in the past 10,000 years. There is nothing you can change that will not dive back into the previous state with some social unrest or crisis.

Yeah, you're just trolling now.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#147

Post by stcredzero »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #143
tw268 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feminists believe that traditional female behavior is bad/useless and needs to be eliminated. We tell girls that to be worthwhile, they need to live lives like men. I never understood this. If people are happy and productive in traditional roles, why do they need to be eliminated?

That's the popular strawman, not what (most) feminists believe. Feminism* teaches that women (and men) should be allowed to do whatever they want, whether that's stay home with the kids or run a corporation; as opposed to "traditional" values that dictate strictly gender-segregated life paths. Yes, I'm sure you can find feminists who think that blah blah blah whatever. Every group, movement, and party on Earth has fr…

When radical feminists start deliberately violating the free assembly and speech rights of other groups, what should the response of the majority feminists be?

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#148

Post by magicalist »

tw268 wrote: post #94
scott_karana wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen studies demonstrating the reverse: controlled for poverty, school, and whether a student has one or two parents, white and black American schoolchildren tested the same. (Standard deviation of 0.06: http://www.nber.org/papers/w12066 ) EDIT: Sorry, wrong paper. Looking for the right one. Even the fact that you point out "in the US" should be an indicator of the racism. I've never heard any other modern count…

Racial differences in IQ are surprisingly robust between and within countries: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png These differences are mirrored by PISA and IQ scores between nations, SAT scores within nations, and etc. It's not hard to find corroborating evidence, but most people don't want to. http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/#Race-IQ It's hard to imagine that racism accounts for the…

Ugh. That map is terrible. I'll just quote wikipedia on this one:

For 104 of the 185 nations, no studies were available. In those cases, the authors have used an estimated value by taking averages of the IQs of neighboring or comparable nations. For example, the authors arrived at a figure of 84 for El Salvador by averaging their calculations of 79 for Guatemala and 88 for Colombia. Including those estimated IQs, the correlation of IQ and GDP is 0.62.

It's not hard to find corroborating evidence, you can just make it up!

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#Na...

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#149

Post by abraininavat »

tw268 wrote: post #134
stcredzero wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll said! Also, we should be careful not to impose new restrictive social conditioning while eliminating the legacy conditioning. We will never entirely succeed, but we should try. (In the same way that one can't drive 100% straight but one should still make a good effort.) Once one's movement for justice has crossed the line, where there are apologetics for the abandonment of that effort, it is then creating injus…

Feminists believe that traditional female behavior is bad/useless and needs to be eliminated. We tell girls that to be worthwhile, they need to live lives like men. I never understood this. If people are happy and productive in traditional roles, why do they need to be eliminated?

Yeah... Feminist here. You don't know what you're talking about. Most if us believe nothing like what you are saying.

Do you base a lot of your beliefs on such shallow and demonstrably incorrect premises?

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#150

Post by magicalist »

stcredzero wrote: post #147
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the popular strawman, not what (most) feminists believe. Feminism* teaches that women (and men) should be allowed to do whatever they want, whether that's stay home with the kids or run a corporation; as opposed to "traditional" values that dictate strictly gender-segregated life paths. Yes, I'm sure you can find feminists who think that blah blah blah whatever. Every group, movement, and party on Earth has fr…

When radical feminists start deliberately violating the free assembly and speech rights of other groups, what should the response of the majority feminists be?

Why should "majority feminists" have any more expectations for their response to those actions than there are for, say, your response?
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