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Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

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Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#341

I am miles away from Eric or Linus, but the "curse of the gifted" is very real. Thankfully I wasn't smart or gifted enough that I could ride it for long, but when it comes to math and problem-solving I rode it well into my high school years. I never learned to do algebra "by the book," because I didn't need to. Or maybe because I wasn't smart enough to. The math teacher would teach "3x + 6 = 9." Basic algebraic probl…

> "x + 1 = 6" I didn't have to subtract 1 from each side, I just thought about it logically and knew the answer.

I don't see the difference. In my mind, thinking about it logically is recognizing that one side has an excess and removing it from the other side. That's subtracting.

To you is it like looking at 5 * 4 and knowing it's 20 rather than thinking about 2 * 5 is 10 and two of those is 20?

I was the kind of rule-following kid who went through the algebra steps because you were supposed to rather than out of necessity. (Or so I like to think: I'm not good at math in my head because I always wrote it out or maybe I relied on paper since I couldn't do it in my head.) I recall rebelling against memorizing multiplication tables in grade ~4 because I thought my time was better spent leaning new stuff (or maybe understanding how to multiply faster -- wouldn't that be ironic!).

It's always interesting to hear how someone else's brain works. Thank you.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#342
post #341

I am miles away from Eric or Linus, but the "curse of the gifted" is very real. Thankfully I wasn't smart or gifted enough that I could ride it for long, but when it comes to math and problem-solving I rode it well into my high school years. I never learned to do algebra "by the book," because I didn't need to. Or maybe because I wasn't smart enough to. The math teacher would teach "3x + 6 = 9." Basic algebraic probl…

> "x + 1 = 6" I didn't have to subtract 1 from each side, I just thought about it logically and knew the answer. I don't see the difference. In my mind, thinking about it logically is recognizing that one side has an excess and removing it from the other side. That's subtracting. To you is it like looking at 5 * 4 and knowing it's 20 rather than thinking about 2 * 5 is 10 and two of those is 20? I was the kind of rul…

But there's doing it, and there's knowing how you're doing it.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#343
post #235
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like you have extremely high IQ. But IQ is not the only merit leading towards a successful and fulfilling life. When you think most problems people deal with are simple and similar. Take your example, overweighted. You think the solution is simple: exercise more, eat less. Usually it's from an engineer's brain. But probably, you forgot to take your excuses into consideration, that's why you over simplified it.…

> exercise more, eat less. Usually it's from an engineer's brain. But probably, you forgot to take your excuses into consideration, that's why you over simplified it. Then you struggled with it like many other people. If you do take all of the aspects into consideration, it's no longer simple any more. But it is, that's my point. If I went out and jogged instead of being on HN, and cut my portions by 25-30%, I'd be f…

I found it was much easier to cut my daily calorie intake and increase fat burning by skipping an early breakfast and regular lunch and moving to coffee for hunger suppressant, a low-carb brunch and some other low-carb afternoon snacks instead. Before dinner, I do about 20 mins of mostly body-weight exercise. Then have a regular dinner including carbs and then some more high-glycemic carbs. Keeping low-carb for a long continuous part of the day lets your body burn a lot of fat for fuel, and it's easier to deny myself those things I like to eat if I know I can have them later in the day, and it's a very nice carrot to do regular exercise. I've also had the impetus to discover low-carb recipes I enjoy, making it a nice feedback loop. To help this process I began by going two weeks without carbs, as that was recommended to help get your body used to burning fat for fuel. I've enjoyed a much improved body composition and it's still getting better.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#344
post #293
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an honest question But it wasn't "an honest question"; that's the point. It would have been an honest question for you or me, but you and me are not Linux kernel hackers. (At least, I'm not, and I assume you're not.) Getting a message like this once would lead to a personal e-mail or in-person conversation explaining that this is in no way an acceptable way to communicate with me, followed by a prompt beeline for the…

It's perfectly possible to get an important point across without being an asshole, and it's really an indication of the social dysfunction that some hackers are unable to. Maybe that's what working with code and little in-person human contact for decades does to you. I've seen the same tone from crypto hackers, also under the guise of writing "mission critical" software. It's not an excuse. You don't see airline pilo…

You don't see airline pilots or doctors yelling at each other for making the occaional honest mistake

You're right, you don't. But my point was that you also don't see Linus yelling at other kernel hackers for making honest mistakes. The mistake he yelled at someone for in the case under discussion was not honest; it was a mistake nobody qualified to hack on the kernel should have made in the first place.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pointing it out in a public forum?

Sure - why not? It is generally best to shed as much light as possible on gossip.

> It is generally best to shed as much light as possible on gossip.

Do you say that as benevolent moralist or is it your personal preference that any gossip concerning you be addressed at you before an audience?

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#346
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's just the inevitable jealous response, but I felt the same way reading it. The deductive bit in the middle in particular — most people I know just aren't simple or predictable enough to guess their favorite music, car, or food. Decades have been spent trying to understand human behavior; how can one person have enough insight to definitively analyze someone's "limitations and patterns"? Not unless they're a…

I agree with everything you said here. I'm not Lex Luthor smart. I don't mean to overstate myself, just meditating on that parts that I feel set me apart (not above or below, just apart) from people. There's a specific reason I'm not inserting IQ into what I'm talking about, I agree that it's not a good focal point for a discussion about intelligence. And I'm not saying I have perfect prediction of human behavior. Ju…

Thanks for the reply!

It's funny that you say it's more Groundhog Day than Sherlock Holmes when your soy milk example, to me, is pretty much as Holmesian as it gets. I've never intentionally tried the kind of deduction that you describe, but at least for me and my circle of friends, I can see it easily falling apart just a few steps in. Plenty of stores carry soy milk nowadays, not just vegetarian ones. I can't possibly hope to know all the restaurants where my friends live. Most of my friends who cook at home get by with dull knives and ancient cookware. And not only do I have no idea which stores sell kitchen supplies, but it's not always obvious whether someone does their shopping in person or on Amazon. This is especially the case for hobbies and activities I'm less familiar with, such as yoga.

I suppose if I had meticulous knowledge of my area and practiced a lot, I could get my guesses above 50%. But it seems like something I'd have to put a lot of effort in, not a skill I would just acquire casually.

Do you find that this comes easily to you?

(I'm not saying that figuring things out about people is impossible, of course. It makes sense to divide up the probability space and increase your odds. Again with your coffee example, you could probably make a reasonable educated guess that the person is vegetarian, or even that they cook at home. But where they shop? Where they eat? There's so many choices these days, and people like trying new things. Even if I had a hunch, I certainly couldn't outright tell them with specificity about all their consumer habits, like you described with your coworker. The probability of me being right would just be way too low.)

I appreciate you posting here, it's pretty interesting to read.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#347
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just remember the multiple WebKit debacles or the BSDs I don't know anything about webkits, but how are "the BSDs" relevant?

They split off a common codebase, but they share a lot of code and patches fly across the multiple codebases without major problem. What takes the most effort is porting across big new features. But that is expected.

Oh, it read as though you were giving them as an example of problems.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#348
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would definitely have had trouble with a "trophy" wife "Trophy" wife does NOT mean "not intelligent".

Would like to point out that in my experience most men who use that expression (at least that I have run into or in popular culture) say "trophy wife" when they mean someone who is attractive and that that is their main redeeming value. So for example one wouldn't have called Hillary Clinton a "trophy wife" because although she is quite accomplished she is not really of the grade of looks that would be "trophy" (in t…

Ok, now that we established that "trophy wife" does not mean "not intelligent", what do we say about people who make that incorrect assumption?

In particular, how smart are such people?

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#349
post #107

edit a little stream of consciousness follows Curse of being gifted is very real. I wonder sometimes how many people couldn't break out of it and have ended up in bad jobs, or worse. Probably like many HNers I also suffered from it mightily in K-12 and by the time I realized what was going on, I was already so far behind that escaping school, rather than redoing years of what I missed, was the easier option. It took…

so the problems other people have are simple, but the problems you have are not? Almost every normal person feels this way sometimes, though your version is more exaggerated. Other people's problems can be changed with a simple change in perspective, because when you're trying to solve other people's problems, you don't have to acknowledge that person's humanity. You can just swap that person out and replace them wit…

There's a lot of reading more into what I've said going on in this thread. It's understandable I suppose, people feel threatened I guess.

I gave an example of a regular everyday problem I have that's simple and straightforward to solve. Most people's problems are rather simple, mine are no different. The difference between somebody who can't "solve" their personal problems and somebody who can is almost largely a function of them simply taking action on the solution.

Being gifted is like being tall, problems tall people have can't always be solved, just like problems that come with being gifted. But sometimes you can address some of the issues. But they too usually aren't all that complicated.

> It leads to dehumanization of others, which robs you of the very companionship you seek.

I do agree with you on this. I know from conversations I've had with other extremely gifted people, that it's very tempting and easy to separate normal folks away from yourself and treat them like a different species.

> I don't know know why you have to deal with depression and hopelessness

It's just a kind of loneliness. I know from talks with other folks like me that it's pretty normal.

It's like being extremely tall, like statistically 1 in 10,000. You literally have nobody who you can commiserate and share with about all the minute-by-minute issues you have with extreme height.

It's the same for people like me. I'm not 1 in 10,000, but unless I spend most of every day meeting new people, I'm not statistically likely to find anybody else quickly. I've known people far smarter than I am who are even more hopelessly alone.

Finding another truly smart person, and it's not always immediately obvious, is like finding a source of light in a dark room. Nothing else matters at all about them, just communicating with somebody who's mind works kinda sorta like yours is like breathing pure oxygen after being stuck in an airtight cocoon.

But even then, high intelligence is so individual, so specific, that you can't ever really find common ground. But at least you know that they're out there, a beacon of light in a deep fog.

Being exceptional, in a way you can't really change, is extremely isolating by nature. The Guinness book of records is full of isolated, lonely, deeply depressed misanthropes.

> it's not healthy to construct a narrative in which you alone are a genius

It's difficult not to, when statistically you might be the smartest person in a group of thousands of people. And when your job and entire life is about "being smart" to help solve issues for the rest of the masses.

Dehumanization works both ways, imagine that nearly everybody you meet and interact with looks at you purely as a functional black box to exploit, problem goes in, solution comes out. You're basically treated as a walking appliance every day. At first it's kind of flattering, but after a while you get tired of not having basic social interactions and courtesies extended to you. And then you tire of being treated like a high maintenance piece of tooling. Fuck that noise, I've been there and it gets old.

Problem: you're treated like a machine and not a person

Solution: remove yourself from that environment, meet new people and play normal for a while so you can bath in normal interactions

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#350

It's weird to see Linus on the other side of being disciplined, and a pretty stark contrast to his own slightly more abrasive style. For example: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75

It would be an honor to work with someone as articulate as Linus (Eric too). I'm constantly surprised they were (and are) able to do so much with email as opposed to the typical lets have a meeting approach.

The world _needs_ more people like them- not just because of what they've built, but because of their approach to it and that sheer brutish honesty of opinions.
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