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Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

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Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#291

Post by benched »

jakobe wrote: post #168
bane wrote: post #107

edit a little stream of consciousness follows Curse of being gifted is very real. I wonder sometimes how many people couldn't break out of it and have ended up in bad jobs, or worse. Probably like many HNers I also suffered from it mightily in K-12 and by the time I realized what was going on, I was already so far behind that escaping school, rather than redoing years of what I missed, was the easier option. It took…

> the kinds of problems most people have seem trivially simple to me This sounds a bit narcissistic. If you think other people's problems are trivial, maybe you're just not being empathic enough to understand their full scope. If everything looks like it follows simple patterns, maybe you just aren't looking close enough. When you learn something new, there's often this point where you feel you understand it all. If…

Or maybe that's just what it's like to be smarter than most people. Your comment seems completely full of shit to me, but I'm sure it's because I'm not empathizing enough.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#292

Post by benched »

gamerdonkey wrote: post #241
bane wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sounds a bit narcissistic. I know. That's the trouble with talking about growing up or being highly intelligent, you end up sounding like a narcissistic prick. Even saying something like "I've tested in the top 1-2% of dozens of aptitude and intelligence tests" sounds like I'm lording it over those who haven't. But I don't think it's really all that different than saying "I'm taller than 99% of the population"…

> I know. That's the trouble with talking about growing up or being highly intelligent, you end up sounding like a narcissistic prick. You've framed this incorrectly. The reason you ended up sounding like a narcissistic prick is because you were being a narcissistic prick. Perhaps you were just reducing his point to something a little too trivially simple. There's nothing wrong with saying things like "I've tested in…

Oh fuck you. You're just being judgmental.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#293

Post by marvin »

pdonis wrote: post #239
marvin wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit. I would never work with someone who addressed me like that after I asked an honest question. It's a wonder that there are enough competent people working on Linux who are willing to put up with this. Getting a message like this once would lead to a personal e-mail or in-person conversation explaining that this is in no way an acceptable way to communicate with me, followed by a prompt beeline for the exit…

an honest question But it wasn't "an honest question"; that's the point. It would have been an honest question for you or me, but you and me are not Linux kernel hackers. (At least, I'm not, and I assume you're not.) Getting a message like this once would lead to a personal e-mail or in-person conversation explaining that this is in no way an acceptable way to communicate with me, followed by a prompt beeline for the…

It's perfectly possible to get an important point across without being an asshole, and it's really an indication of the social dysfunction that some hackers are unable to. Maybe that's what working with code and little in-person human contact for decades does to you.

I've seen the same tone from crypto hackers, also under the guise of writing "mission critical" software. It's not an excuse. You don't see airline pilots or doctors yelling at each other for making the occaional honest mistake, which happens in every field and can with the correct routines be caught before it causes any damage.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#294

Post by wobbleblob »

nswanberg wrote: post #65

For those curious about the context: https://lkml.org/lkml/2000/8/23/97 Note that noone replied to Eric and the thread continued on. Also go back and read some of Linus's posts before this. Eric writes using vague generalizations about age and experience; Linus writes with specifics about his experience with the kernel. The former style makes for popularly read posts but the latter seems much more effective. Also, co…

"[ESR's] style makes for popularly read posts but [Linus'] seems much more effective"

That seems to be a recurring theme. While ESR was writing opinionated tomes, LT wrote a successful OS kernel and a widely used source control system.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#295

Post by jokoon »

Indeed, success is only potential times ability to work with other people.

I still wonder what sort of company or business environment Linus works in.

Nobody would have heard of general relativity if einstein would not have been let working in his labs for long hours.

Often you'll have a very skilled technician and you will have to give him more space to achieve more work than other, but at some point, you still have to make this person work a little with others to make this one guy's contribution more valuable.

Apart from that, I still believe we don't give enough chance to introvert types so that they can channel their work and prove their worth. Linux is a success mostly because Linus managed to channel his talent, but there are many untold stories nobody will remember about a talented guy that just gave up trying. I'm still siding with Linus because the system tend to not work properly for talented people in general. I'm sure he must have some sort of anger and frustration issue, and that mail somehow shows it.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#296

Post by danieltillett »

lawtguy wrote: post #216
nether wrote: post #23

I'm not gifted, I'm actually pretty dumb. Can anyone help a stupid normal person relate to this article?

Lots of good explanations in this thread, but I'll add my own: I'd call it the trap of the gifted, rather than the curse. That trap has three prongs: 1) Gifted people get concepts right away, almost effortlessly. 2) Because it's so easy for them, they never have to work at learning. It just happens for them. 3) Being so good at something earns praise from their teachers, parents, friends, etc. This often becomes cent…

This is the best written post in this whole thread. a+

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#297

Post by dennisgorelik »

bane wrote: post #205
larrys wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your reply. Wow that's really interesting and great as well. [1] Won't get into why I think my wife is "smart" and won't say anymore lest she reads this and the wrong thing happens! (I'll leave it at that). That said I'm always amazed at the number of people I've run into who think there is some downside to not having a basically "stupid" woman that is totally dependent on the husband. I've had people actu…

> So you are in awe of her because your metric is your own intelligence which you have already figured out is quite high. And you have proof of that from past experience. Yeah, I suppose that would be the metric then! It's fantastic to have somebody, everyday, who constantly challenges me and forces me to exercise my mind. I would definitely have had trouble with a "trophy" wife...and actually I find that I get along…

> I would definitely have had trouble with a "trophy" wife

"Trophy" wife does NOT mean "not intelligent".

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#298

Post by dennisgorelik »

bane wrote: post #182
jakobe wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the kinds of problems most people have seem trivially simple to me This sounds a bit narcissistic. If you think other people's problems are trivial, maybe you're just not being empathic enough to understand their full scope. If everything looks like it follows simple patterns, maybe you just aren't looking close enough. When you learn something new, there's often this point where you feel you understand it all. If…

> This sounds a bit narcissistic. I know. That's the trouble with talking about growing up or being highly intelligent, you end up sounding like a narcissistic prick. Even saying something like "I've tested in the top 1-2% of dozens of aptitude and intelligence tests" sounds like I'm lording it over those who haven't. But I don't think it's really all that different than saying "I'm taller than 99% of the population"…

If you are smart, why is it hard to figure out a way to develop daily habits that would allow you to lose weight?

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#299

Post by larve »

bane wrote: post #244
doctorstupid wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the kinds of problems most people have seem trivially simple to me" From this I can tell that you're smart, but not really smart. The really smart never say things like that.

Can you provide an example of a typical problem most people have that's not trivially solvable by "don't do the thing that causes you to have the problem?" There's literally hundreds of thousands of pages of advice columns and books and lectures you can go to about various typical money/relationship problems which make up the vast bulk of people's issues which are all summed up with the above. Problem: I don't make e…

This seems completely delusional to me. Your answer to every problem is saying "solve the problem". I can think of two problems every person has that are not trivially solvable with your approach:

Problem: people die Problem: people are unhappy

Or, to relate to what transpires as "your" problem, having a meaningful fulfilling time with other people. Which by the way is a problem that I think is fundamental to human existence.

In my experience, problems that look trivial get increasingly complex the closer you look at them. The simple problem of (off the top of my head) how to cook an egg will probably bring you a lifetime worth of fulfilling intellectual challenges.

I have a decent IQ, skipped a few years of education, and used to think I had trouble relating to other people. I still seem to have this uncanny ability (at times) to solve programming issues (I'm a developer). I used to think I had trouble relating to other people and set out to live a more passionate life, and spent a lot of time with less intellectually oriented people. One thing I learned (and I had to learn it, as in spend effort on acquiring some kind of knowledge) is that intelligence is so much more than what I thought it was. It is not just about solving problems, it is also about experiencing and appreciating reality, and how to share and express your appreciation of reality. It clicked one day, and I have pretty much no problems anymore connecting with people, regardless of how trivially solvable their "problems" are.

This is a bit rambling and dishing out advice, and I don't want it to sound that way. I am trying to boil it down to your approach of problem + solution. Here is a simple one:

Problem: the sunset yesterday was beautiful, and I want to share the beauty I experienced with you.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#300

Post by adobriyan »

marvin wrote: post #293
pdonis wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an honest question But it wasn't "an honest question"; that's the point. It would have been an honest question for you or me, but you and me are not Linux kernel hackers. (At least, I'm not, and I assume you're not.) Getting a message like this once would lead to a personal e-mail or in-person conversation explaining that this is in no way an acceptable way to communicate with me, followed by a prompt beeline for the…

It's perfectly possible to get an important point across without being an asshole, and it's really an indication of the social dysfunction that some hackers are unable to. Maybe that's what working with code and little in-person human contact for decades does to you. I've seen the same tone from crypto hackers, also under the guise of writing "mission critical" software. It's not an excuse. You don't see airline pilo…

Linus is a kid compared to what several other linux-kernel denizens could reply to you.

Though, I agree, sometimes there is an excessive amounts of public humiliation on the list.

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