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IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

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Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#101

Post by dfc »

walshemj wrote: post #96
diogenescynic wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason most large companies give 2+ months paid severance isn't because they are 'nice'--it's to get around the 60-notice period required when laying off more than X% of your work force (due to the WARN Act).

Typical assuming that all coutrys have the same laws as the USA.

Did you notice that the quote at the top of mjn's comment says "here in the states"? The geography was clear from the start. The only person that did not realize this was you, but at least your ignorance was a nice excuse to get some America hating in before bedtime.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#102

Post by [deleted] »

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #98
crusso wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... because an anecdote about someone good being let go is data showing that that's the way it normally happens. ... because the person who was let go and who worked very hard didn't learn anything, didn't improve his ability, couldn't take the tremendous experience he had gained and apply it in a new job or gasp start his own enterprise. No, this isn't an anecdote that should serve as a red flag signalling IBM's con…

No, but it is an object lesson in being strategic in where and when you try. Go ahead and work long hours on projects that build your skills, that will make you look good to the organisation or to future employers (or clients), but don't do it out of loyalty.

[deleted]

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#103

Post by dfc »

iends wrote: post #56
Edmond wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most IBM employees are in India, over the years they've consistently trimmed their US workforce (got the treatment) to the point that only the research arm and a relatively small consulting staff and management remains US employees. I suspect that is how they've been able to impress financially given all the multimillion dollar troubled projects they've overseen. Should be interesting times to come. Apparently Watson…

This is not actually true. The unofficial IBM union ( http://www.endicottalliance.org/ ) estimates there to be ~66,000 FTE in the USA.

What is "not actually true"? OP's comment was not "there are no estimates that there are 66,000 FTE US IBMers."

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#104

Post by auctiontheory »

nailer wrote: post #40
dagw wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope jobs will re-emerge onshore later on. If by "onshore" you mean China, then you'll probably get your wish. Otherwise, probably not.

I've worked with 10 Indian employees that could easily be replaced with a single competent westerner (of any descent whatsoever) for 1/3 the price. I suspect I'm not alone.

I've worked with 10 Indian employees that could easily be replaced with a single competent westerner (of any descent whatsoever) for 1/3 the price.

Funny. IIRC, in One Night @ The Call Center, Indian call center employees are told that a 35-year-old American has the intelligence of a 10-year-old Indian. Ouch.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#105

Post by deepuj »

TsomArp wrote: post #49
PakG1 wrote: post #46

I have perhaps a unique perspective on this, as I was part of IBM in Asia and left in November 2013. I witnessed the 2013 layoff action and witnessed many good people in Australia and Singapore laid off in the name of cost-cutting. It is mentioned in the article that for this 2014 round, people with even PBC 1 and 2 were fired, which would have been the top performing people on their teams. I worked as a project mana…

Sadly, I completely agree with you, and more specifically on the part about IBM going so low on the hiring process as to hire people that can not do their jobs. I would add that to add insult to injury, their level of english is terrible, to the point where many times you can not even understand what they are trying to say. This for both, India and China workers. Again, like you say, it is probably not the India and…

You are right, IBM Domino is much more than a mail server. It along with Notes is the single biggest cause of loss of productivity for offices infected by it.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#106

Post by booruguru »

jmsduran wrote: post #67
smackfu wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the severance and extended benefits are far more generous than any layoff I've been through here in the states. IBM is pretty generous with the severance in the US too. Something like a week's pay per 6 months worked, capped at 26 weeks. If you've been working there a while, that's a half year of salary. Plus there is generally a month notice, in theory so you can find another job internally.

Former IBM'er here. The reason IBM gives severance and extended benefits is not to look good, it's to prevent their employees from filing unlawful termination suits. Second, there is a rumor in IBM that once an employee is marked as an RA (layoff), they are placed on an HR blacklist preventing them from finding another job internally. Departments that hire an employee placed on the RA blacklist are believed to have t…

> Departments that hire an employee placed on the RA blacklist are believed to have to layoff another employee to take their place.

I don't understand. Why is it so important to prevent laid off workers from being rehired/transferred? What's the rationale?

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#107

Post by nailer »

electrichead wrote: post #84
nailer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> a single competent westerner (of any descent whatsoever) > are you saying they were incompetent because they were Indians? Quite obviously not.

Not that obvious, actually. What was the point that you were trying to make?

Many western engineers, including many people of Indian origin in the US or UK, would also be 10x more productive than an individual in an outsourcing company hired based on the low cost of labor.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#108

Post by nailer »

KumarAseem wrote: post #93
nailer wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked with 10 Indian employees that could easily be replaced with a single competent westerner (of any descent whatsoever) for 1/3 the price. I suspect I'm not alone.

And I have worked with 10 westerners who also can be easily replaced by 1 Indian who will do the work in a much better manner. Just because you might have had exposure to some idiots does not mean you label the whole bunch as incompetent.

It's certainly not a rule, just an observable phenomena, working in IBM with colleagues in Hyderabad and at Google partnering with Intuit in, IIRC, Bangalore.

It's a cultural difference: in India, people become engineers because it carries prestige. They don't code because they love computing (this is measurable: ask how many outsourced engineers have GitHub accounts). The lack of actual interest in their profession demonstrates itself in their work.

The best Indian programmers I've met have either left India or weren't born there in the first place, in either case I'd consider them westerners.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#109

Post by a3n »

[deleted] wrote: post #102
Mvandenbergh wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but it is an object lesson in being strategic in where and when you try. Go ahead and work long hours on projects that build your skills, that will make you look good to the organisation or to future employers (or clients), but don't do it out of loyalty.

[deleted]

Actually I believe object lesson is correct. Abject means severe, humble, or weak. Most commonly seen as "abject poverty."

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abject?show=0&t=13...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abject%20lesson

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/object%20lesson

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#110

Post by walshemj »

dfc wrote: post #101
walshemj wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typical assuming that all coutrys have the same laws as the USA.

Did you notice that the quote at the top of mjn's comment says "here in the states"? The geography was clear from the start. The only person that did not realize this was you, but at least your ignorance was a nice excuse to get some America hating in before bedtime.

The op was explicitly about IBM in India and the redundancy there FFS. Where exactly does the WARN act apply to India? abotu as much as fucking TUPE does

Its fracking karma whoring civilians chiming in with anecdotes they heard from their mate down the golf club about labour law in a different country entirely that piss me off

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