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IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

wraltechwire.com

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Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#71

Post by TsomArp »

pekru wrote: post #61
TsomArp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, I completely agree with you, and more specifically on the part about IBM going so low on the hiring process as to hire people that can not do their jobs. I would add that to add insult to injury, their level of english is terrible, to the point where many times you can not even understand what they are trying to say. This for both, India and China workers. Again, like you say, it is probably not the India and…

> Again, like you say, it is probably not the India and China people's fault, > their level of english is terrible Indians'/Chinese'

While I don't completely understand your comment, I didn't say my level of english was perfect ;)

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#72

Post by BenSS »

This is completely normal business for IBM. I saw it too many times during my tenure there and it was obviously well overdue for the India branches.

There are regular cuts across the board, and there is actually very little attention paid to the internal ratings of the employees or keeping well-functioning groups together. Everyone left behind is expected to take up the slack, and additional hires are only made when things break badly enough for upper level management to be aware of it.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#73

Post by crusso »

a3n wrote: post #63
PakG1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When IBM did their layoff action in 2013, people in Australia received 2 weeks pay for every year they had worked at IBM. I was there, saw those people leave, saw what they got offered. Was really sad about it because one guy in particular was possibly the best project manager for our department in all of the Asia Pacific region. They gave the most critical projects to this guy. He worked hellish hours to get a sever…

> They gave the most critical projects to this guy. He worked hellish hours to get a severely important project done, ... When he came back, he got his 2 weeks pay per year worked. And thus was the lesson learned by one more person. We are all, each and every one of us, hardware to be virtualized and eliminated as soon as possible. We are all, each and every one of us, an expense to be minimized. You may get along gr…

... because an anecdote about someone good being let go is data showing that that's the way it normally happens.

... because the person who was let go and who worked very hard didn't learn anything, didn't improve his ability, couldn't take the tremendous experience he had gained and apply it in a new job or gasp start his own enterprise.

No, this isn't an anecdote that should serve as a red flag signalling IBM's continued move downward.

Far from it. This is an object lesson on why we shouldn't even try.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#74

Post by pekru »

CGudapati wrote: post #66
arethuza wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Severance package was on an average 3 months basic component of salary, which is like 6 weeks full pay." That's not bad - probably more than most people would get here in the UK.

Just to give a idea of how the salary structure works here. Suppose you are earning 50,000 per month, only 11,000 will be your basic, some 5000 will be your house rent. and another 5000 for some expenses and additional perks can be up to some 30000. So, they will earn only 11,000 pm instead of the 50,000. which won't even be sufficient to pay rent.

Just elaborating. The 'basic pay' part of the salary paid by tech companies in India is usually very less. (And it isn't due to sinister motives but rather to maximize the non-taxable chunk in salary).

This 'basic pay' will usually be 1/5 or 1/7 of monthly net/gross pay. So, for an average worker (say 3+ yrs) in IBM India, the monthly gross would be around INR60K => severance would be around INR20K, which is really a paltry sum.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#75

Post by rch »

gutnor wrote: post #31
prof_hobart wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on the receiving end of a layoff like that,but I've also seen it done vastly differently. Our place has been through a couple of rounds of layoffs (as the result of outsourcing). Both went through lengthy - I'm talking months - periods of "consultation" where the company worked with employee reps to try to make sure the correct people were retained (both in terms of looking for opportunities for voluntary r…

The most painless I have seen is the one my it colleague got at a bank: "Hi, you are fired, if you go sign the paper at HR today and you are out of here before 9:30 AM, we give you 6 months salary and an added 10K compensation for the June bonus, quite better than the legal package of 4 weeks pay you are entitled to. What do you say ?" Consultation periods are just draining the moral of the unaffected team. Good luck…

Agreed - a friend of mine who was part of an internal audit team at a large financial company was let go with similarly generous terms. We went on vacation for a couple of weeks, and she found another fantastic job a short while after we came back.

While it I have no idea if it would apply elsewhere in the world, I feel like giving people a window (doesn't have to be 6 months) where they truly don't have to worry can have a profound impact on their ability to move along with their career, even under these circumstances.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#76

Post by linux_devil »

What else you expect in country with poor labor laws? Layoffs is fine I think almost every company need to go through this phase one day or other for cost cutting. But there should be a procedure , a short 2 hours notice as seen in this article is shocking.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#77

Post by thejosh »

negamax wrote: post #9
thejosh wrote: post #3

How many workers were actually cut?

According to article 'One analyst has estimated that IBM will cut 13,000 of its more than 434,000 workers'. Not sure how many (what percentage) is in India and how many are affected.

Estimated is not the actual amount, I read the estimate and they are either high or lower. Cutting 3% of your workforce is not great.. but it's not an actual massacre.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#78

Post by ck2 »

dominotw wrote: post #69
ck2 wrote: post #50

Um, what is happening in Syria is a slaughter, literally. What is happening in India is mass layoffs, sad and unfortunate but "slaughter" ? When AOL and other US corporations outsourced all the call centers to India in 2000-2010 , there were mass layoffs here too.

Do you feel a sense of justice now?

No it is never a good thing when corporations discard people, anywhere. It is like they are throwing out an old sponge they have squeezed every drop out of.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#79

Post by navman »

sspiff wrote: post #35
smoyer wrote: post #5

I don't want to seem insensitive but ... The quote at the beginning of the article describes pretty much every layoff I've ever seen (or been through). The person quoted describes it as inhuman, but HR and managers are told to keep it impersonal (don't induce more crying than there is). You don't get notice (on purpose), you have to turn in company-owned property and they want you out the door (it affects the morale…

I was thinking something similar. 3 months partial pay also seems better than I would have expected in India. This makes me wonder, is this the first significant downsizing they experience in Bangalore? Did they think they were invulnerable to these kind of things?

Layoffs are not that common in Indian tech industry like here. So it is bound to affect the perception.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#80

Post by veidr »

pekru wrote: post #61
TsomArp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, I completely agree with you, and more specifically on the part about IBM going so low on the hiring process as to hire people that can not do their jobs. I would add that to add insult to injury, their level of english is terrible, to the point where many times you can not even understand what they are trying to say. This for both, India and China workers. Again, like you say, it is probably not the India and…

> Again, like you say, it is probably not the India and China people's fault, > their level of english is terrible Indians'/Chinese'

I'm pretty sure that level of nitpicking is outside the scope of what the the (non-native English speaking) poster meant when they said 'their english is terrible'.
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