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IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

wraltechwire.com

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Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#31

Post by gutnor »

prof_hobart wrote: post #7
smoyer wrote: post #5

I don't want to seem insensitive but ... The quote at the beginning of the article describes pretty much every layoff I've ever seen (or been through). The person quoted describes it as inhuman, but HR and managers are told to keep it impersonal (don't induce more crying than there is). You don't get notice (on purpose), you have to turn in company-owned property and they want you out the door (it affects the morale…

I've been on the receiving end of a layoff like that,but I've also seen it done vastly differently. Our place has been through a couple of rounds of layoffs (as the result of outsourcing). Both went through lengthy - I'm talking months - periods of "consultation" where the company worked with employee reps to try to make sure the correct people were retained (both in terms of looking for opportunities for voluntary r…

The most painless I have seen is the one my it colleague got at a bank: "Hi, you are fired, if you go sign the paper at HR today and you are out of here before 9:30 AM, we give you 6 months salary and an added 10K compensation for the June bonus, quite better than the legal package of 4 weeks pay you are entitled to. What do you say ?"

Consultation periods are just draining the moral of the unaffected team. Good luck if you have any work to do with the affected team.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#32

Post by smoyer »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #19
smoyer wrote: post #5

I don't want to seem insensitive but ... The quote at the beginning of the article describes pretty much every layoff I've ever seen (or been through). The person quoted describes it as inhuman, but HR and managers are told to keep it impersonal (don't induce more crying than there is). You don't get notice (on purpose), you have to turn in company-owned property and they want you out the door (it affects the morale…

I don't want to seem insensitive, but... Hi I'm your boss, you're fired, give me your laptop, pick up your shit, security is going to escort you out the building. Cause no trouble. Just an interpretation to what's going on there.

For me (as that boss), it's been much easier to fire people who deserve it than to lay off people who are working earnestly (not necessarily profitably) for the business.

So I'd never tell an employee who's part of a RIF that they're fired. The rest of what you describe is exactly how HR trained us to handle the matter.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#34

Post by dagw »

CmonDev wrote: post #28
pyalot2 wrote: post #2

Outsourcing jobs. Outsourcing layoffs. Checks out, what did India expect?

Yes, not really a lay-off. More like winding down the scale of outsourcing. I hope jobs will re-emerge onshore later on.

I hope jobs will re-emerge onshore later on.

If by "onshore" you mean China, then you'll probably get your wish. Otherwise, probably not.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#35

Post by sspiff »

smoyer wrote: post #5

I don't want to seem insensitive but ... The quote at the beginning of the article describes pretty much every layoff I've ever seen (or been through). The person quoted describes it as inhuman, but HR and managers are told to keep it impersonal (don't induce more crying than there is). You don't get notice (on purpose), you have to turn in company-owned property and they want you out the door (it affects the morale…

I was thinking something similar. 3 months partial pay also seems better than I would have expected in India.

This makes me wonder, is this the first significant downsizing they experience in Bangalore? Did they think they were invulnerable to these kind of things?

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#36

Post by smackfu »

smoyer wrote: post #5

I don't want to seem insensitive but ... The quote at the beginning of the article describes pretty much every layoff I've ever seen (or been through). The person quoted describes it as inhuman, but HR and managers are told to keep it impersonal (don't induce more crying than there is). You don't get notice (on purpose), you have to turn in company-owned property and they want you out the door (it affects the morale…

>the severance and extended benefits are far more generous than any layoff I've been through here in the states.

IBM is pretty generous with the severance in the US too. Something like a week's pay per 6 months worked, capped at 26 weeks. If you've been working there a while, that's a half year of salary. Plus there is generally a month notice, in theory so you can find another job internally.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#37

Post by tluyben2 »

ElDiablo666 wrote: post #8
smoyer wrote: post #5

I don't want to seem insensitive but ... The quote at the beginning of the article describes pretty much every layoff I've ever seen (or been through). The person quoted describes it as inhuman, but HR and managers are told to keep it impersonal (don't induce more crying than there is). You don't get notice (on purpose), you have to turn in company-owned property and they want you out the door (it affects the morale…

You do seem insensitive. Fuck their missed projections. Let all the managers quit for their failure. Did you look at the financials? Why are you pretending that you have the slightest clue what's going on in their business? If the employees were in charge like they ought to be, they could deal with their business properly and almost certainly avoid this fucking travesty. Tens of thousands of people losing their jobs…

Well yeah; that's the eternal issue generally; top managers are considered doing well because they dared to reorganized. That's great, but they also messed up; if they didn't there would be no need for the lay-offs; IBM is big; they can put those people to work in another division. So after the re-organization I would suggest the responsible managers are fired with a few weeks severance as well. That never happens though and no matter what people come up with as excuses, they never sounds very valid. Giving some guys a few million bonus (don't say that happens here, but probably will, learning from the past) basically for firing 10.000 people is a weird concept in my eyes and it will always be. The bonuses and other incentives for the responsible parties should be put towards re-educating and re-hiring the affected people in other parts of IBM (and whatever other company you put here). IMHO.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#38

Post by victor27 »

The 3 months of compensation mentioned here - is equivalent only to 1.5 months in any other country. So not overtly generous.

I'm sure their employment contracts mention 1-2 months of salary in event of termination (or a similar notice period in case the employee wants to leave) - so this is not more than committed.

(In India the "Base Salary" component is often 50% of FIXED compensation, not including bonuses. This is done to reduce the statutory requirements on the company, especially in times like this.)

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#39

Post by nailer »

victor27 wrote: post #38

The 3 months of compensation mentioned here - is equivalent only to 1.5 months in any other country. So not overtly generous. I'm sure their employment contracts mention 1-2 months of salary in event of termination (or a similar notice period in case the employee wants to leave) - so this is not more than committed. (In India the "Base Salary" component is often 50% of FIXED compensation, not including bonuses. This…

> The 3 months of compensation mentioned here - is equivalent only to 1.5 months in any other country.

Why?

3 months of salary, to spend in India where things are relatively cheaper, seems like 3 months of Salary to me.

Re: IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe as 'slaughter' and 'massive'

#40

Post by nailer »

dagw wrote: post #34
CmonDev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, not really a lay-off. More like winding down the scale of outsourcing. I hope jobs will re-emerge onshore later on.

I hope jobs will re-emerge onshore later on. If by "onshore" you mean China, then you'll probably get your wish. Otherwise, probably not.

I've worked with 10 Indian employees that could easily be replaced with a single competent westerner (of any descent whatsoever) for 1/3 the price.

I suspect I'm not alone.

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