John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar • Hacker News Board

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#171

Post by BSousa » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 11:37 AM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #148

mistermann wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite not being done the book yet, could you give us an idea what the general premise is, and how it somehow disproves what to me at least is the overwhelming real world effectiveness of a low carb diet for losing weight?

The author participated in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study which compared rural Chinese diet and health outcomes to typical western ones. He’s been vegan for >20 years, and he studies and advocates a vegan diet, because he claims that eating animal products is unhealthy / causes disease. He is the darling of vegans, among whom he has a large following. Among books written from that perspective, my under…

While I'm not going to get into good or bad about vegan/meat eaters, you do know that the China Study has been heavily criticised for selective data picking right? Thus, just because he was part of it doesn't mean he is a reliable source.

I've included the link below as a starting point for the criticism of the China Study. There is a good bit of scientific literature on it as well (am at work, don't have the links handy)

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fal...

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#172

Post by StavrosK » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 11:38 AM UTC

pierreio wrote: post #159

StavrosK wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who eats sugar to get full? I (and everyone I know) eat sweets after a meal, or because I see them, not because I expect to sate my hunger with it.

Lustig's point is that you don't know you're eating sugar when you actually are. Up to 10% corn syrup in white breads, sauces, any precooked meal, sausages. If you eat BBQ sauce, you're eating sugar. Salt and sugar save low aroma food (>80% processed food). Their combined power on the human body is vicious.

As the other commenter said, this is pretty much just the US, I just didn't realize the article wasn't talking globally.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#173

Post by 72deluxe » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 11:41 AM UTC

gnusouth wrote: post #163

72deluxe wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greetings to Balgowlah, Australia! What's the weather like? Here in the UK, it is raining incessantly, and Worcester up the road is flooding due the Severn bursting its banks.

Very dry here, some rain would be nice if you could arrange that ;)

Got a siphon? You are underneath the Earth and we're on top of it so I suppose it'll naturally drain through the pipe anyway!

Sunny as well I expect? I am looking at the grey clouds and horrendous weather out of the window here.

Wish I could visit!

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#174

Post by dimitar » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 11:46 AM UTC

pvnick wrote: post #18

I'm getting sick of this ignorant sugar alarmism. Sugar is not the culprit behind all the diseases listed in the article. Obesity is [5] [6]. Unless of course you're talking about cavities. Then not brushing your teeth is the culprit. The reason sugar gets such a bad rep is that high-sugar foods tend to be less-filling and lead to overeating [1]. Stay at a healthy weight by controlling caloric consumption [2]. The ar…

As you said elsewhere in the thread its calories-in, calories-out.

This simple fact is a very big win for science, but it is very unpopular - no one likes to actually calculate calories, so a lot of people prescribe to dubious unbalanced diets that sound convincing by catering to their food preferences and aesthetics.

No regulation short of destroying consumer choice and imposing an approved-foods-list will defeat obesity. Trying to just limit sugar is pointless because industry and consumers will substitute the current form of sugar for something else, raising the cost of food in the meantime, which will hurt the poor. (Just like an import quota on sugar in the US has not reduced consumption of sweets, because sugar got substituted for HFCS).

I think the best way to solve obesity is to find some chemicals that satisfy appetite easily and cheaply or sweeteners that are as good or better tasting than sugars, but are not caloric. (Aspartame is very sweet, but tastes significantly worse than sugar).

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#175

Post by iSnow » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 12:04 PM UTC

eclipxe wrote: post #56

mishkovski wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm that from my own experience. I lost 20kg in 6 months. Yes I restricted my calorie intake. But how I did that? By controlling my appetite with avoiding carbs especially sugar. Ketogenic diet is powerful tool for restricting calorie intake.

Concur. I didn't restrict my calorie intake, and lost 40lbs eating 65% fat, 30% protein and 5% carb. As soon as I add in sugar or other carbohydrates in any capacity, I gain weight and eat much more. On a ketogenic diet I rarely even think about food - I am rarely hungry.

OTOH I lost 20Kg eating lots of fruit (evil addictive fructose in there) and no meat.

Any one-sided diet can work if your awareness rises. More wholesome diets might even work better in the long run.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#176

Post by smtddr » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 12:56 PM UTC

georgemcbay wrote: post #89

smtddr wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Doughnuts, one of my favorite foods, can be part of a healthy diet just like anything else. When you say "doughnut" you mean this[1], right? If so that's 100%, Grade A nonsense and abruptly ends any consideration I was giving your comment. 1. http://twincitiesdonut.com/images/donut.jpg

I'm not a particularly big fan of doughnuts but I do tend to eat one or two large bagels (which don't have nearly as much sugar content as doughnuts but do tend to get lumped into that whole "carbs are evil" thing) before going on a long run or bike ride. I also eat more fatty meats than average but that goes along with doing heavy weight training at least 3 times a week. There are many foods that looked at out of co…

I agree with your comment.

Once every 2 months or so, I buy one of these[1]. But there's no way it can be "part of a healthy diet just like anything else", as the person I replied to seems to think. It is an exception to my healthy diet, not part of it. I deviate from my healthy diet once every 6 - 8 weeks to indulge. I'm also aware of Micheal Phelp's diet[2] would work for me too if I could swim back & forth for at least 4 hours a day instead of standing[3] in front of a computer for 8+ hrs.

1. http://www.militarydiscountscentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2...

2. http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/08/13/the-michael-phelps-di...

3. I have a standing desk and never use my chair.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#177

Post by victorhooi » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 1:02 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #111

victorhooi wrote: post #49

I'm currently reading "The Low-Carb Fraud", by Dr. T. Colin Campbell, who was one of the original authors of the China Study. http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Fraud-Colin-Campbell/dp/1... Campbell has multiple degrees in biochemistry and nutrition, and from what I can tell, seems to be pretty well respected in his field. On the other hand, Gary Taube, who wrote Good Calories, Bad Calories, and who people here seem…

Despite not being done the book yet, could you give us an idea what the general premise is, and how it somehow disproves what to me at least is the overwhelming real world effectiveness of a low carb diet for losing weight?

Essentially, Campbell claims that Taubes fails to distinguish between the carbohydrates in foods such as fruits, vegetables and whole grains, versus that from refined carbohydrates.

Also, he claims that Taubes mis-represents the "low-fat" diet advocated by most health officials since the 1970's - and that the SAD (Standard American Diet) has never really been low-fat. It has around 30% of calories from fat, as opposed to the 10 - 12% that he advocates. Hence, when we compare a low-carb, high-fat diet against the normal "low-fat" diet, we're really just going for a high-fat, high refined carbohydrate diet, which is meaningless.

He also points to some studies, and says we need to do more research on the long-term effects of high-fat, low-carb diets:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23372809

I don't know if I'd agree with everything yet, and I'm definitely not vegan...haha.

But I've found I've been trying to exercise fairly regularly (cycle to work, swim/run), and keep my portion sizes small. I've been eating a tonne of fruit lately though...lol.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#178

Post by sambeau » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 1:16 PM UTC

cperciva wrote: post #60

eclipxe wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey man, calories-in, calories-out! Calorie-is-a-calorie! Sugar is fine! All in moderation! Heroin is fine, all in moderation!

Heroin is fine, all in moderation! In fact, numerous studies have found exactly this.

Which is why it is used medically with pregnant women and newborns.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#179

Post by the_imp » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 1:19 PM UTC

pvnick wrote: post #31

eclipxe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the reason sugar gets a bad rep is because of what it does to your body. The insulin response to sugar is the primary way your body stores fat and sugar itself is readily converted to fat. The glucose & fructose spikes are also source of inflammation. It is believed that this inflammation is the cause of some of the damage related to heart disease, etc.

>The insulin response to sugar is the primary way your body stores fat and sugar itself is readily converted to fat This is a common myth, but it's wrong. Dietary fat is what is primarily stored and leads to weight gain during caloric excess; dietary carbs just decrease the amount of fat being used for energy, but can also get stored as fat tissue during overfeeding in a process called de novo lipogenesis (which is w…

> Dietary fat is what is primarily stored and leads to weight gain during caloric excess

Do you have a source for this? The sources [1], [4] you quoted don't seem to say that, at least in a way I could understand.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#180

Post by valtih1978 » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 1:39 PM UTC

This is complete bullshit. The civilization is dying because of addiction to cars and private households (urban sprawl) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPS1y81b1Bw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugv0OY6LyuE http://www.postcarbon.org/

This has nothing to do with sugar. Regarding the cardio-vasculous system, the viscous fats (everything besides the plant oil and fish fat) are really dangerous. I feel the chalestirol clogging my vessels every time I eat the viscous fats.