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John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

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Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#131

Post by glenra »

aparadja wrote: post #78
cperciva wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heroin is fine, all in moderation! In fact, numerous studies have found exactly this.

Could you post links to some reputable ones?

When heroin was legal, addicts often took it in pill form which was cheap and sufficient to deter cravings. The chief negative long-term effect of being addicted to heroin is constipation...IF you can reliably keep a supply of it in pill form.

The negative effects we see in addicts today are mostly caused by two factors: (1) if you shoot up, needle - especially dirty needles - can be a vector for infection and diseases such as HIV, (2) if you can't get a reliable supply of known potency you can go through withdrawal or overdose - the wild swings are harmful. (Impurities in the drug can also be harmful depending on what it's been "cut" with.)

So if the drug were legal it'd be fine. But when it's illegal, some characteristics of an illegal market make it bad for people - those are problems related to the illegality, not really having much to do with the drug itself.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#132

Post by probably_wrong »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #119
geoka9 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this guy, sugar and carbs contribute to the development of cancer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUlE1VHGA40

According to this guy, Jesus rode a dinosaur to work: (insert appropriate YouTube link here)

Unless my irony detector is off, you can't make that accusation without posting some kind of evidence. That guy happens to be the president of the Memorial Sloan–Kettering Cancer Center, so I'm willing to accept he knows a bit more about cancer than me.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#133

Post by beachstartup »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #127
beachstartup wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a bear is a perfect example of an mammal that uses its insulin response during glut times to store fat. 1. gain weight during the summer by eating high sugar, high starch, high calorie foods such as fruit, berries, roots, honey/insects, and as much whole fatty fish as it can get its hands on for a super high calorie kick. it HAS to gain weight in the summer, and does so easily on that diet. 2. during the winter it hi…

Um. Bears don't have a glut in the summer. They eat everything they can and some still die from not getting enough. A glut is when there is so much food that you can eat more than is healthy. You don't see bears passing up salmon saying, nah, I had enough.

define:glut in google says "an excessively abundant supply of something."

i'm pretty sure if a bear can gain hundreds of pounds in a few months, there's an excessively abundant supply of food.

if not, well, there isn't a glut, now is there. and there's soon going to be no more bear, either.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#134

Post by wavesounds »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #20
pvnick wrote: post #18

I'm getting sick of this ignorant sugar alarmism. Sugar is not the culprit behind all the diseases listed in the article. Obesity is [5] [6]. Unless of course you're talking about cavities. Then not brushing your teeth is the culprit. The reason sugar gets such a bad rep is that high-sugar foods tend to be less-filling and lead to overeating [1]. Stay at a healthy weight by controlling caloric consumption [2]. The ar…

Doughnuts, one of my favorite foods, can be part of a healthy diet Can they?

There's not a dietitian on this planet that when asked to define a "healthy diet" would include donuts. This guy is living in denial if he honestly think this.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#135

Post by glenra »

sosborn wrote: post #59
ynniv wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it all comes back to calories in vs calories out. 12 cans of Coke a day = healthy diet?

It was never argued that 12 cans of Coke a day is healthy. It was simply argued that body weight gain/loss is governed by calories in vs calories out. These are two entirely separate statements.

Body weight gain/loss is also governed by mass in versus mass out. So make an effort to inhale less than you exhale, drink less water than you expel via urination or sweat, and poop more than you eat. Any of those are guaranteed to work if you could sustain them, but you can't.

Which is nicely analogous to telling someone to focus on calories in versus calories out.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#136

Post by stdbrouw »

pvnick wrote: post #18

I'm getting sick of this ignorant sugar alarmism. Sugar is not the culprit behind all the diseases listed in the article. Obesity is [5] [6]. Unless of course you're talking about cavities. Then not brushing your teeth is the culprit. The reason sugar gets such a bad rep is that high-sugar foods tend to be less-filling and lead to overeating [1]. Stay at a healthy weight by controlling caloric consumption [2]. The ar…

Re: 4, don't you think it's a bit of a stretch to go from a study that notes that temporary carbohydrate overfeeding can increase leptin, to saying that a little bit of sugar will keep you on your diet? (It's an intriguing result, no doubt, just not something that I'd make sweeping extrapolations from.)

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#137

Post by bjterry »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #100
ef4 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again, it all comes back to calories in vs calories out. Which is both true and irrelevant, because the system that governs calories in and calories out is a complex control loop. When it's working correctly, weight is effortlessly maintained within a narrow range thanks to compensating adjustments in appetite and, to a lesser extent, metabolism. When it isn't working right, people try to drive the process with the…

> Which is both true and irrelevant, because the system that governs calories in and calories out is a complex control loop. When it's working correctly, weight is effortlessly maintained within a narrow range thanks to compensating adjustments in appetite and, to a lesser extent, metabolism. What evidence leads you to believe this? There's no prima facie reason to believe evolution has adapted mammals to a glut of f…

The !Kung people were a hunter-gatherer tribe in South Africa that persisted with the traditional way of life into the modern era. They had tons of food (the mongongo nut is available year-round in "truly massive quantities") and were still fit by modern standards (even thin), so it's not merely a question of the availability of food. This lends credence to the idea that it isn't merely the quantity of food availability, but its unnatural palatability that makes people overeat.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/3/665.full?ijkey=f7644b...

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#139

Post by eclipxe »

snowwrestler wrote: post #113
CEyzaguirre wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heart disease etc, including[1]: "This is why hemoglobin A1C is frequently used in studies that try to correlate blood sugar control to various disease processes like Alzheimer’s, mild cognitive impairment, and coronary artery disease. It’s well documented that glycated hemoglobin is a powerful risk factor for diabetes, but it’s also been correlated with risk for stroke, coronary heart disease, and death from other i…

Blood sugar levels are not a reliable proxy for dietary sugar intake.

Tell that to diabetics

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#140

Post by eclipxe »

jeffdavis wrote: post #126
mishkovski wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm that from my own experience. I lost 20kg in 6 months. Yes I restricted my calorie intake. But how I did that? By controlling my appetite with avoiding carbs especially sugar. Ketogenic diet is powerful tool for restricting calorie intake.

Lustig is primarily concerned with fructose (and sucrose, which quickly metabolizes into a 50-50 mix of fructose and glucose). Carbs in general (ones that metabolize mostly into glucose) have been widely available for a long time. They are also processed in a more "normal" way than fructose. It might still be a good idea to reduce carbs, but I'm skeptical that the ketogenic diet is healthy.

Why skeptical? It has been used for quite a while to treat children with epilepsy. If you're trying to lose weight, it makes sense to avoid things that are uniquely fattening (starches, sugars, etc). Ask anyone that was around before the low-fat fad of the 80's and 90's how you would lose weight - eat less bread, sugar, candy, cake, potatoes, etc.
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