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The Book of Graham

leveragedsellout.com

61–70 of 125 posts

Re: The Book of Graham

#61
This article just doesn't sound right. YC has much higher success than most VCs. But even if you weren't doing your startup at YC, I still feel it's far better thing than having a corporate tech job (let alone pseudo-tech job in finance). The thing is that, you choose what you want to do. Even if you choose selling newspaper, its better than a random "manager" with half the competency telling you to fix a random bug in some product you didn't even cared before. You setup your own culture. If you don't like meetings, you don't do it. If you like blasting music and have grill in your office, go ahead.

Above all, startups in SV is something that doesn't have downside to people coming out of college. Even with miserable failures, you would be most likely get aqui-hired with 3-5X better pay package than someone who had worked for a decade in that same company.

However I totally discourage people dropping out of school to do startup. I get truly disgusted when people suggest that option. As Guy Kawasaki used to say, stay in school as long as you possibly can. Rest of your life is very likely going to be in one job or another unless you hit a lottery.

Re: The Book of Graham

#62
post #46
post #36

This was surprisingly entertaining. There's some truth to it, but it essentially misses three things: 1) The intangible benefits of being at a startup (as a founder or early employee) -- working on interesting problems, with smart people, in a well funded environment. You learn things, meet people, get to use amazing tools. (Startups definitely aren't the only way to do this -- academia or, for engineering, some part…

So me it is all truth... I mean, your 2) point is critical: I am in Brazil, I am in a startup because I had no choice, and although I am getting paid with someone else money, if the startup crashes, I will go down with it, and go down I mean, get in worse situation than I already am... currently I am struggling to pay my rent and food, if my startup fails, I won't be able to pay rent and food, at all, considering my…

> I am in Brazil, I am in a startup because I had no choice [...]

Would emigration be an option? Since you are on HN, I assume you can program. There are lots of companies in lots of places world wide looking for talent, and paying for it.

Re: The Book of Graham

#63
post #36

This was surprisingly entertaining. There's some truth to it, but it essentially misses three things: 1) The intangible benefits of being at a startup (as a founder or early employee) -- working on interesting problems, with smart people, in a well funded environment. You learn things, meet people, get to use amazing tools. (Startups definitely aren't the only way to do this -- academia or, for engineering, some part…

> The downside to failure is exceptionally low. It's all other people's money (at least in Silicon Valley); Wall Street is all playing middleman with other peoples' money too.

There are a few prop shops, too. (But they are the exception.)

Re: The Book of Graham

#64

Remember that in all brilliant satire there are elements of both truth and absurdity circling around a key absurd truth. I think that key truth is: YC is a value investor by any reasonable definition of the term. That's not in any way to say they're not a symbiotic value investor.

They are both a value and a growth investor.

Re: The Book of Graham

#65
post #42
post #36

This was surprisingly entertaining. There's some truth to it, but it essentially misses three things: 1) The intangible benefits of being at a startup (as a founder or early employee) -- working on interesting problems, with smart people, in a well funded environment. You learn things, meet people, get to use amazing tools. (Startups definitely aren't the only way to do this -- academia or, for engineering, some part…

The downside to failure is exceptionally low. It's all other people's money... Oh my!

It's easy to pull a quote like that and make it sound like a moral failing. If you read the comment it's quite smart observation:

1% odds in an even game suck; 1% odds where you're given your wager by someone else and you get to keep 50% of the upside and the upside is potentially 10000:1 is pretty awesome.

The fact is is someone else's money directly modifies the costs to you, and therefore changes the risk/reward calculation. There is no implication that you wouldn't work as hard simply because it isn't your money.

Re: The Book of Graham

#66
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...your real cost is opportunity, but generally the market values a failed startup founder or early employee at enough of a premium over a member of a later stage team that you can catch up quickly. Hmm. Is "generally" right here? Are founders really getting hired at a enough of a premium to earn the ~$100-200k they lost over 1-2 years while failing?

It's really hard to generalize. I think "person who is a top 10% but not top 5 Stanford undergrad CS senior" who then goes to found a YC-backed startup which ultimately fails after 2y is ultimately better off than the person who takes the "good dev job" at Google or Facebook. When the founder is looking for a job 2 years later, if it's via acquihire, it is probably a wash on cash (due to taxes...potentially quite ahe…

> Probably the best bet is to somehow get into a top startup in a role where performance isn't so critical to the ultimate success of the company, usually after Series B, or at a big company.

Or just buy a lottery ticket. I'd argue the odds are much similar, with much less effort.

> (If I had more of an aero/engineering background, I'd probably prioritize space, and try to work for SpaceX; as it is, the only things I'd be qualified for there are IT, and their IT is windows shit, and not core to the success of the enterprise.)

SpaceX has several IT positions in roles where you're not going to touch a windows box. I know, because I check constantly. Their HR team is apparently not so hot at getting back to the Jobvite apps though, or the bits are dropping somewhere.

Re: The Book of Graham

#67
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The downside to failure is exceptionally low. It's all other people's money (at least in Silicon Valley); Wall Street is all playing middleman with other peoples' money too.

There are a few prop shops, too. (But they are the exception.)

I think the programmers even in prop shops are playing with the firm's money, usually, vs. contributing their own capital. Especially the ones hired for their early career programming skill vs. a history of successful HFT.

Re: The Book of Graham

#68
post #36

This was surprisingly entertaining. There's some truth to it, but it essentially misses three things: 1) The intangible benefits of being at a startup (as a founder or early employee) -- working on interesting problems, with smart people, in a well funded environment. You learn things, meet people, get to use amazing tools. (Startups definitely aren't the only way to do this -- academia or, for engineering, some part…

the market values a failed startup founder or early employee at enough of a premium over a member of a later stage team that you can catch up quickly

This may be true for technical founders/employees[1]. I doubt it is the case for a non-technical founder who would otherwise work in the finance sector - which appears to be the case this story is about.

[1] I'm not convinced, but I'll concede it since there is another thread where that discussion is ongoing.

Re: The Book of Graham

#69
post #23

It seems that a lot of people are missing the point. Leveraged Sellout was famously satirical of the financial markets in the heady pre-crisis days of '06-'08. Even published a book: http://www.amazon.com/Damn-Feels-Good-Be-Banker/dp/B0023RSZK... The site was quiet for a long time and has very recently re-emerged to take on the tech industry - albeit from the perspective of the New York finance type. Outlandish and u…

A side note: If you claim that people are missing the point, then you need to state that point (and why). Otherwise you're just leaving those people confused and/or angry.

I thought the point was made clear that it's a satirical website?

Re: The Book of Graham

#70
post #3

As a YC founder I know exactly what I signed up for. YC is in the business of placing a series of low risk bets twice annually and then sorting through those bets looking for likely winners, doubling down and helping when possible It doesn't matter though, they still lower my overall risk profile by being involved and (I believe) increase my odds of success. I believe it's a square deal. I also believe that fundament…

> secure life making a few hundred thousand dollars a year in an essentially mind-numbing profession that does little for humanity is unthinkably depressing. You realize Wall Street bankers make a few million dollars a year doing mind-numbing work that does little for humanity, right?

Yeah that doesn't matter to me.

Maybe others experience wealth differently but it made substantially no difference to my day to day happiness (once the newness of the money had worn off) - but working on a project I feel strongly about makes a strong and lasting difference.

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