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Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

nature.com

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Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#161

Post by einhverfr »

jb17 wrote: post #4
FD3SA wrote: post #2

It is my sincere hope that this understanding becomes pervasive in society, such that the inane social movements based upon naught but angry emotional mob mentality become part of history. As it stands, young boys are medicated with psychiatric drugs for beings boys, and this is deemed acceptable by society. Boys are failing at every step in public institutions, with higher drop out rates at all levels of schooling.…

I don't think anyone is denying physical differences between people with XX and XY chromosomes. I also think it's common knowledge by now that sex influences the development of diseases (which is what the paper is about). What the debate is usually about is inequalities in social power relations and whether these can be attributed to what you call 'social conditioning' or biology. This paper doesn't contribute anythi…

You also have a significant problem, when looking back at the historical record, at defining social inequality. Is this a purely formal analysis? If it is than wage gaps are no issue, but economic liberty is overrated. The industrial economy, even though it produces significant social inequality on a substantial level, is very good at hiding it behind formal equality.

But to get to a substantive analysis, one has to look at what people's options in life are. If women can't seek divorce but can murder their husbands with impunity provided that certain cultural fictions remain intact (the case in ancient Athens, see Chris Faraone's "Ancient Greek Love Magic" covering poisonous love potions as a defence against murder, and note too that a purpose of the potions was to abate anger), then the right to divorce is totally subsumed in more substantial, even extreme, options.

If one accepts substantial realities as the measure of equality, then women are less equal today politically and economically than they were in 1800.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#162

Post by einhverfr »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #110
yaddayadda wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm disappointed that there's a "Men's Rights" movement. My mother raised me as a "feminist" and part of being a "feminist" was not discriminating against anyone because of their gender. For example, feminists support a boy who wants to play with dolls or a father wants to be a stay-at-home parent. I hate that the label itself is gendered and I wish it would be changed, but the principles of "feminism" include "Men's…

This ignores the fact that "feminism" is not a coherent movement. To be a feminist, one must advocate for women's rights at a bare minimum. Everything else is completely up to the individual, and the fact is there exist lots of schools with contradictory opinions on major social issues. Sex-positive/sex-negative, pro-traditional femininity (lipstick feminist)/anti-traditional femininity, pro-trans/transphobic (TERF),…

> This ignores the fact that "feminism" is not a coherent movement.

Bingo.

BTW, anyone who thinks it is a coherent movement needs to read this feminist critique of obstetrics(which expands to a critique of modern medicine and mainstream feminism):

"Birth as an American Rite of Passage" by Robbie Davis-Floyd. Better to read the second edition than the first.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#163

Post by [deleted] »

AutoCorrect wrote: post #127
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is a very vocal, very vitriolic subsection of the feminist movement It's also a tiny and unpopular subsection of the feminist movement. They're outnumbered a hundred to one by dudes who like to use them as strawmen. > only recently has the value of women in society dropped to that of men. I don't think that makes any sense. I mean, I literally don't understand what you're trying to say, and none of your asser…

>I don't think that makes any sense. I mean, I literally don't understand what you're trying to say, and none of your assertions seem to be relevant to each other. Think about it this way: which sex has historically been unequally represented in the most dangerous jobs? And which sex is STILL the only sex that has to sign up for the draft? And sure they're relevant.

[deleted]

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#164

Post by bluekeybox »

einhverfr wrote: post #158
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there aren't, but a lot of people are firmly convinced that there are. Feminism and "political correctness" and your alleged "angry emotional mobs" exist as a necessary backlash to the (historically overwhelmingly popular) idea that Man and Woman are as complimentary and irreconcilable as opposite poles of a magnet. These people don't just assert that "boys, on average, prefer trucks to dolls," but that boys shou…

I actually disagree with you both with regard to the complementary nature of the sexes and the basis of feminism. I will deal with feminism first because I think some historical background is worth looking at. The typical narrative we are fed regarding women's rights is that women decided one day they didn't like being oppressed as they had through the ages and fought for equality which they got. The problem is that…

The narrative of oppression is a very important one, and like all grand narratives (thanks critical theorists, for once at least) not always correct. It's starting to become an example of "rule by victimhood" (c.f. "rule by decree"). Whole terminology has been devised by feminist and other similar movements so as to make the oppression narrative appear untouchably true. For example, the word "sexism" (as well as a few other similar "-isms") has been defined as something one-directional, something that only men can afflict on women and not the other way around. This is considered to be valid because there supposedly exists an "institutionalized oppression" that makes sexism possible, and that therefore sexism in the opposite direction is impossible. In other words, the very definition of a word contains an a priori assumption, with the net effect being that repetitive use of aforementioned word in ideologically correct context engenders constantly consuming this assumption at face value.

I could go on for hundreds of pages, but I will stop here.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#165

Post by [deleted] »

scott_karana wrote: post #74
Beliavsky wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All people are the same: race does not matter." In the U.S. whites score about one standard deviation above blacks on IQ tests such as WISC and Stanford-Binet, and in adoption studies that try to control for environment, this difference does not go away. Race is more than skin deep.

I've seen studies demonstrating the reverse: controlled for poverty, school, and whether a student has one or two parents, white and black American schoolchildren tested the same. (Standard deviation of 0.06: http://www.nber.org/papers/w12066 ) EDIT: Sorry, wrong paper. Looking for the right one. Even the fact that you point out "in the US" should be an indicator of the racism. I've never heard any other modern count…

[deleted]

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#166

Post by bluekeybox »

discostrings wrote: post #34

It's disappointing to see so many people here read the title of the article and immediately start the see,-social-differences-are-the-result-of-vast-differences-between-the-binary-sexes wheel rolling again. It's nowhere near a valid conclusion from the article's content. There are racial differences in gene expression (though much smaller), too, but I doubt anyone would upvote it or start a similar conversation about…

> immediately start the see,-social-differences-are-the-result-of-vast-differences-between-the-binary-sexes wheel rolling again

That's not the wheel I'm interested in rolling. I'm rather interested in critiquing the current humanist-sociological status quo mantra that biological differences are irrelevant or can be abstracted away. A rather large difference between the two goals.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#167

Post by ebfe »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #135
ebfe wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a distinct difference between disapproving of men who dress as women and believing that they shouldn't be allowed to do so .

You think there's a lot of people who wouldn't want a cross-dresser in their church, but would allow their sons to wear dresses?

Very few people who discourage their son from wearing a dress or taking up ballet do so in an attempt to enforce some grand imperative of how things should be. Rather, parents encourage certain traits because they believe that these are the traits that will equip their children with the best odds of success. And they're right- a boy who enjoys t-shirts and sports is at a tremendous social advantage over one prefers dresses and ballet. It has nothing to do with dictating how things should be, and everything to do with trying to maximize a child's expected future happiness given how things are.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#169

Post by einhverfr »

bluekeybox wrote: post #164
einhverfr wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually disagree with you both with regard to the complementary nature of the sexes and the basis of feminism. I will deal with feminism first because I think some historical background is worth looking at. The typical narrative we are fed regarding women's rights is that women decided one day they didn't like being oppressed as they had through the ages and fought for equality which they got. The problem is that…

The narrative of oppression is a very important one, and like all grand narratives (thanks critical theorists, for once at least) not always correct. It's starting to become an example of "rule by victimhood" (c.f. "rule by decree"). Whole terminology has been devised by feminist and other similar movements so as to make the oppression narrative appear untouchably true. For example, the word "sexism" (as well as a fe…

Fortunately that narrative is starting to fall apart, due to folks who have taken on critical studies of these topics and gone on for hundreds of pages each.

One of the recurrent problems though is defining oppression. What usually happens is that folks project assumptions about the way society works based on the US today to times and places that are very different.

Two things I have come to conclude though:

1. In most times and places, power relationships among women have greater variety, complexity, and nuance than power relationships among men (and therefore defy formalization to a larger extent) and

2. Almost anywhere you have patriarchy you also have matriarchy. The two, instead of being opposites, tend to go together.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#170

Post by bluekeybox »

einhverfr wrote: post #169
bluekeybox wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The narrative of oppression is a very important one, and like all grand narratives (thanks critical theorists, for once at least) not always correct. It's starting to become an example of "rule by victimhood" (c.f. "rule by decree"). Whole terminology has been devised by feminist and other similar movements so as to make the oppression narrative appear untouchably true. For example, the word "sexism" (as well as a fe…

Fortunately that narrative is starting to fall apart, due to folks who have taken on critical studies of these topics and gone on for hundreds of pages each. One of the recurrent problems though is defining oppression. What usually happens is that folks project assumptions about the way society works based on the US today to times and places that are very different. Two things I have come to conclude though: 1. In mo…

Any examples of (2) -- or links to something that discusses this phenomenon? Thanks.
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