Today is The Day We Fight Back • Hacker News Board

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#151

Post by BrandonMarc » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:11 PM UTC

KiwiCoder wrote: post #31

davidw wrote: post #4

I support this effort 100%, but... there's something a bit off about the messaging that I can't quite put my finger on. Perhaps "the day"? This is going to be a long haul, not like killing SOPA or some other bad bill. This system is entrenched, and has a lot of support. It's going to be a long fight, and it's going to be a slog. For those in the US, though, please do call your representatives.

If I had to point to one thing it would be "the day". * It's clearly going to take more than a day to achieve a positive outcome in a system that was established over many decades * What happens when "the day" ends? * Since the action is framed as "the day", this is how the media will report on it - including outcomes of the day . These outcomes, whatever they are, will be packaged with the day and thus more easily d…

Agreed. Even if the media gives "the day" plenty of coverage, their 24-hour news cycle will simply bury it, and CBSABCNBCCNNFNC viewers will have forgotten it by Friday, and likely not see it again.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#152

Post by dllthomas » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:12 PM UTC

chaostheory wrote: post #150

sinak wrote: post #25

All of the people who built the site and the banner are volunteers who met on HN across various threads, and not members of any of the advocacy orgs or companies listed on the site. We're really interested in getting feedback on how future campaigns can be better, and happy to discuss some of the decisions we made. The non-profits involved did all the legal and organization lifting, and this is a great opportunity to…

Push even harder during elections.

What does that buy us, when politicians ignore campaign promises and so much of this is secret enough that it takes more than 4 years to come out?

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#153

Post by dredmorbius » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:15 PM UTC

motters wrote: post #34

My little fight back are some instructions on how to provide your own internet services, including encryption. http://freedombone.uk.to/ It's not ideal, of course, but in the short term since there seems to be no political appetite for relinquishment or meaningful reform then technical mitigation strategies - if they can be sufficiently popularised - may help to reduce the harm resulting from mass surveillance. Ultim…

If you want some quick-and-dirty CSS to make that slightly cleaner:

http://pastebin.com/7sGiHBwF

... it's just a set of styles I slap on blank pages myself.

Consider it GPL v2 or better, BSD / MIT licensed, though honestly, I couldn't care less how it's used or by whom.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#154

Post by Loughla » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:19 PM UTC

fidotron wrote: post #90

I honestly think this is naive at best, and at worst useful idiocy on behalf of the companies dependent on the illusion the aim is even achievable. Mass surveillance, if technically possible, is going to happen. Therefore make services where it isn't possible. If that screws with your business model you're part of the problem.

"Mass surveillance, if technically possible, is going to happen. Therefore make services where it isn't possible. If that screws with your business model you're part of the problem."

Let's just extrapolate this.

Mass surveillance is possible because of the connected style of world we live in. Anything that is created can be corrupted in some fashion by world governments or corporations looking for an advantage. Therefore, we shouldn't do anything, because it's hopeless, or we should make something that is so needlessly complicated that no one will use it.

For Christ's sake, does your sense of superiority feel better now that you've poo-pooed this entire thing? Do you know what makes mass surveillance and government abuse in general quite successful and allows it to keep happening? Apathy and arrogance. Either you're so smart that you see this will always happen, so you can beat it for yourself, but not anyone else; or there is no way to fix it for everyone, so why even try.

You're right, this isn't achievable. UNLESS YOU GET INVOLVED IN THE SYSTEM. Like it or not, dirty or not, the current political system is what we have, and you have to work within it. That means talking to people, calling, writing letters to the editor, donating money, forming local groups, doing all of the old-school things that our representatives respond to. It doesn't mean resigning yourself to defeat before even fighting.

You don't like the way this initiative is running? Then pull your head out of your own ass and get involved in the real world. Take your almighty skills and put them to use for everyone, not just yourself. You're just as much a part of the problem as those other people seek to disrupt.

Sorry. Much rant.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#155

Post by dredmorbius » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:21 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #4

I support this effort 100%, but... there's something a bit off about the messaging that I can't quite put my finger on. Perhaps "the day"? This is going to be a long haul, not like killing SOPA or some other bad bill. This system is entrenched, and has a lot of support. It's going to be a long fight, and it's going to be a slog. For those in the US, though, please do call your representatives.

This is the marketing effort.

Getting out a message means bringing as many voices together at the same time. Getting press coverage. Making noise.

Diluting that influence over a longer period of time dilutes the call.

That said: yes, a longer-term call to action would be a damned good thing.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#156

Post by higherpurpose » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:23 PM UTC

sinak wrote: post #25

All of the people who built the site and the banner are volunteers who met on HN across various threads, and not members of any of the advocacy orgs or companies listed on the site. We're really interested in getting feedback on how future campaigns can be better, and happy to discuss some of the decisions we made. The non-profits involved did all the legal and organization lifting, and this is a great opportunity to…

Next time you do this, you should create a widget for calling Congressmen directly, the way Tumblr did it with SOPA last year I think. Calls are much more effective than signatures or emails and I barely even see a 2-step call to action for it. It should be the big immediate and obvious call to action right on the front.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#157

Post by BrandonMarc » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:24 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #106

Nothing on this page effectively answers the single most common response to mass surveillance: "Why should I care if they read my emails? I'm not important and I don't do anything wrong. If it helps them catch terrorists, who cares?" Until this question is answered clearly and effectively, nobody except all those splinter groups represented by so many logos will care about this.

Follow it with this question:

"As long as [the IRS] is [accused of] targeting [tea partiers], who cares? Besides from what I know they probably aren't."

... then tell them to fill in those blanks with something else. You might also follow it with this line of reasoning:

"And I trust this party who's running things. And I trust the other guys will never be in power again. Because that would be a healthy democracy, and my guys would never overstep their boundaries."

Hopefully the ironies, contradictions, vulnerabilities, and fallacies are so plain little more need be said, and you can then focus on how to address the issue, since it's agreed there's an issue.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#158

Post by BrandonMarc » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

arca_vorago wrote: post #127

The irony to me is that they have two of the worst offenders when it comes to mass surveillance advertised on the side of the page. Facebook and Google, despite their attempts to say they weren't aware of the NSA gaining access to their info, are probably just as much of a threat to privacy as the NSA total information awareness. It goes like this: let the private companies run wild when it comes to privacy violation…

As I've said before, I wish I could upvote 10x ...

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#159

Post by crassus » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

BrandonMarc wrote: post #147

I'm amazed that nobody's mentioned the biggest weapon we have against the political class: Primary elections. Not the final elections - by then the incumbents are in place and it's too late ... for national office, incumbents resign / die more often than they're beat by an opponent. Primaries are where the action is, for two reasons: * it's the one time an incumbent is most vulnerable * very few people vote in primar…

The way to measure your political effectiveness is how many people have lost their jobs. We're not making real progress until Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer are unemployed, just like we aren't making real progress on IP law until most patent attorneys are working traffic tickets.

The Tea Party began by running primary challengers to GOP incumbents, and they remain a powerful force today. It turns out that politicians listen when their friends lose their jobs.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#160

Post by BrandonMarc » Tue, Feb 11, 2014, 5:30 PM UTC

dllthomas wrote: post #142

mrweasel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the same feeling. From the website: Governments worldwide need to know that mass surveillance, like that conducted by the NSA, is always a violation of our inalienable human rights. Sorry, but the governments of the world already know this. Obama, Merkel, Hollande, Cameron or Putin isn't going to stand up proclaim: "I'm sorry, we didn't know". It's not that we shouldn't do anything, nor do I have the answer as…

'Internet "Blackout" is already forgotten and just pissed people of, it didn't encouraged anyone to resolve or change anything.' SOPA and PIPA were defeated after several legislators changed their stance, purportedly in response to phone calls surrounding the blackout.

Yes, SOPA and PIPA were defeated with much fanfare and attention, while some different laws doing the same damn thing were passed just a month or two afterward.

Victory?!